Craig,
Paul James long time announcer for BYU sports wrote a book about BYU sports. In it, it talks about the crap BYU teams had to endure during the 60’s and 70’s because of the Black issue. Colorado State use to throw heated coins at the players, in Wyoming, they use to throw bottle, urine bags, etc at the players.
If you get a chance, you should go read it.
Ron is having a revisionist history moment.
Other teams have “enjoyed” similar treatment. It is the nature of the beast in some areas. Boise State players had bottles thrown at them and were spit on. BYU fans spit on their own team when they sucked prior to Medenhall. Fans in the Southern states take rivalries to extreme lengths. Fact of life-some people are just ignorant
The big boys of P-5 don’t want to share the gold with anyone but other P-5’s.
Floyd: Oh yeah, I forgot, somewhere else on the road somebody threw hot angle irons at our players and cheer leaders in basketball. Paul James knew all about it. He even sent in a story to CBS, which was KSL’s national hookup for TV and radio then. It sadly told everyone on his broadcasts that CBS would not take those stories to the public.I remember the black Wyoming football players who boycotted playing BYU. Their head coach, Lloyd Eation kicked them off of their team. But the press made them martyrs and I believed that the UW administration inter- venied somehow.
Floyd,
People protest against us pre 1978 over the black issue.
People protest against us pre 1978 over the Branches for Latinos instead of joining us in our wards.
LGBT today protest against us because of our activity in California and the pre 2018 stand in the BYU honor code.
There is no revisionist history moment here. My statement was post 1978 era.
As we act in a non inclusive manner, those that feel we discriminate against them, will protest against us…
That’s the nature of the beast! As we sew, so shall we reap. AS we do on to others as we would have them do onto us, we will have far less protest against us.
I was at Wyoming games when beer cans were thrown at us. I was at the game we lost in Laramy when coach LE said that he would rather lose in Laramy in live in Provo, than to win in Laramy and have to live there.
No, I am having no revisionist history moment here.
People will be people. Most athletes care little for things not relating to the sport, but other folks tend to put them up to things because they are highly visible and want the exposure for their agendas. Life is a growing process for humans and institutions. Hopefully we all get to the same place eventually. BYU is no exception-it is an institution funded by students, parents of students, and the church. It is not perfect, because it is filled with imperfect people, but it is one of the best options out there imo for someone who enjoys living life in a higher spiritual atmosphere and getting a good education. BUT it is far from perfect
Sundance, I totally agree with you. I see you as having an open mind that may not agree with what I post, but I believe that you see my postings as a legitimate concern.
You take a different positive approach than the postings of Floyd.
It is my opinion, based on his negative comments on virtually every post from Floyd in reply to my postings,
that he is vey narrow in thought, with little depth, and absolutely closed minded and negative.
Floyd does not seem to be a positive person at all.
Floyd would rather say, “I AIN’T doing anything wrong and I am being persecuted.”
I try to take a different approach by saying,
" What can I do to improve my approach as to not affend as many people." (I’m not doing a good job here. Sorry)
This is what I am trying to say in many of my postings:
Nobody loves BYU more than I do.
Nobody is more loyal to buy than I am.
As good as BYU is, I want to make positive changes that will make BYU even better.
Very simply, some of those positves changes include:
Do onto others, as we would have them do onto us.
Judge not lest we be judged, and leave all judging to God.
and remember that as we sew, so shall we reap.
What goes around, comes around.
For every action, there is a separate, but equal reaction.
We can not continually single people out over the ages and not expect those people that we single out, to get even with us, be it today, be it tomorrow, be it next year or be it in 4 decades. A built up resentment from those that we singled out in the past, will surely hurt us when the resent finally comes out in full force. I want us, The students, alumni, University, and Church to avoid that. Does that make me a bad person?
Sundance,
I made a terrible mistake of names. I deeply and strongly apologize to Floyd. ( and to you for the mistake). I do see Floyd as a very good man, with an open mind, that is fair with his judgements. Floyd often does not agree with me, as I sometimes, do not agree with him, but I do have much respect for him.
What ever I mistakenly said about Floyd, I meant intentionally to say about Roy.
texcooug1492
I agree with you. I remember those days also. I also remember that the LGBT community will protest against any conference that will consider allowing us into their P5 conference.
The question is this:
Why?
Why did they pre 1978 and why do they post Prop 8 hate us so much and what can we do about it"
Should we say, " I didn’t do anything wrong ! Why are the persecuting me ?"
Or, should we try to figure out why we are so disliked and shunned, and try to make some positive changes and not be so hard to get along with?
Aro,
I agree with you, my DOB 12/11/1935, I remember very well, and confirm that which you say about the 1950’s and early 1960’s. I started BYU on the quarter system school year 1953-54.
I do like Basketball and to a lesser extent than football, I do follow, somewhat, but not thoroughly basket. I am a football freak that follows football all through recruiting, spring practice, fall practice, pre season games and season game or about 9 months per year and some of those months, about 8 hours per day as it pertains to BYU.
It can be said, that football really did not become anything to take positive notice about until Lavel Edwards came on the scene approximately 1972.
So yes, to your point, pre LE was as bad or worse than 2017.
My title, the “Rise and Fall” of BYU Football was a take off or a paraphrase of a similar article from the Desert News. It was that Desert New article that inspired me to hitch hike on to it and expound on my point of view, that may be offensive to some, yet reasonable to others. It is okay to not agree with my point of view. There are others on this site, i.e Roy, that I seldom agree with…
Craig,
I appreciate your post. On the most part, I agree with all that you said, even when it conflicts with some of those things that I said. The difference is in the perspective, but not in the content.
Pre 1956, there was that war in heaven teachings and you know those issues. That brought some ridicule. Some thought that we were racist.
Than for a very short period of time, it was the Cane/Able thing. ( many took issue with what we called "a curse as others saw it as a blessing.) This added to the racist opinion. Than almost immediately and up until 1978, it was just one of those mysteries that we don’t understand, but all things will be known onto us in the next life. Yes Craig, you are right, this did cause issues with those outside the Church.
So yes, Craig, there was that issue that brought on ridicule, and of course, the reorganized Fundamentalist seemed to enjoy embarrassing us with gloating that which was no longer acceptable in the main body of the Church since,
"We believe in honoring obeying and sustaining the law of the land.
We stressed many different things back than that seems to be no big deal now, just like we stress things now that seemed to be no big deal back than. Back than, coke was the big No no… Today it’s no big deal. Today it’s the LGBT issues that are the big deal and it was never mentioned back than.
My father in law, whom I will always love and respect, was bishop for not 4, but 13 years. He started the Eastmont Ward and the East Los Angeles Stake in Los Angeles, Ca… He was born in Colonial Mexico to a polygamist family. Several different general authorities came to visit him in his home when he was Bishop. (Less than 2 million membership in those days) Also as many or more Mormons in California than in Utah during those days. (Not per capita)
He use to almost boast that we were non political and non judgmental. I loved that about the Church, Some how, it seemed more inclusive and more Christ like.
Thank you Mike Harris. I do appreciate your post.
I do need to make it clear.
I love BYU more than any other University upon the face of this earth.
I do believe that like all other faith based top tear Universities, Boston College, Baylor, Notre Dame, TCU, SMU and all of those other less known faith based universities, there is much room for improvement.
And yes, I include BYU in that faith based University which I have a lot of respect for but acknowledge that each of us has had our day of embarrassment, as have most other universities that are not faith based.
Nobody. no matter how hard we try, are not exempt from something coming up that will have the potential to embarrass us. I think recent times of Baylor, SMU, BYU and of course in the non faith based university of Penn State. Things will happen.
Sometimes, our good intentioned methods of prevention, (The Honor Code), brings more condemnation than what it is trying to protect us against. Some times things like fighting against discrimination is much more important than facial hair. etc.
I think that we need to be extremely careful to not blame God for some of our mistakes. I think that we must be more careful to weigh the value of the prevention vs the harm done with our methods of prevention.
It is not necessarily the fighting for what we believe to be true, that is wrong, but perhaps the ( methods) we use to live up to our standards that could be improved… In living up to our beliefs, (I ask for no change. ) The lack of sensitivity towards others that do not share the same belief, I believe could be improved.
Of course, we could just continue saying, " I AIN’T doing anything wrong. I am just persecuted."
Or, we could make some minor changes and say, " What about my attitude, could I change to bring about a more favorable response to that which I believe."
Yes that’s what I thought you meant to say. Floyd is a good guy and puts a good amount of thought into what he writes
Actually the coach from Canada, sorry can’t remember his name, did some good things with Virgil Carter and a really good end named Phil Idle first grabbed my attention as a grade schooler to BYU
Sometimes we are over sensitive to things that happen and immediately refer to it has having to do with our religion and beliefs. We have many of the same beliefs and values as other religious institutions throughout the world and it some cases far less conservative than some religions. It is often magnified in athletics, but really, some teams don’t like each other and it doesn’t have anything to do with religion or beliefs. I attended BYU and U of U and though BYU is my where my heart is, I like Utah. BYU drubbed a lot of teams and piled on a lot of points. That isn’t going to create a lot of love, but that’s just sports. You have no idea how seriously Southern communities take football and the fans can really get out of hand. BYU used to play with a big chip on their shoulder. PF penalties weren’t uncommon and fights occasionally broke out. I would like to get back to hard-nosed football and deal with the rest in a different venue. Athletes are used by others for their own agenda and that irritates me. I attended BYU-i know what goes on there-the same thing as other schools, but a lot quieter. There are gays at BYU, there is partying, drinking, drugs and premarital sex. To act like it doesn’t happen is ridiculous. These are kids for the most part making their own decisions for the first time in their lives away from home. I have no problem with codes, but I think they need to be handled in an appropriate way for the good of the students and not like everyone is spying on everyone else like the Russian KGB is loose in Provo. Let the football coaches deal with their athletes not some paid administrator, whose purpose is to catch and subject. I have good hope for the football team at BYU this year and if they can hold on to their coaches, it should turn out well. Grimes knows how it is at LSU and he’s trying to bring a little of it to Provo. Hard-nosed, disciplined football. I hope he succeeds. Been a pleasure Ron-Take care
Sundance,
Each and every word in each and every sentence, I totally agree with, You say so much better than what I try to say.
You have the art of being able to communicate, without being attached, that which I try to communicate but lack the ability to do so without being attacked.
Thank you so much. We are exactly on the same page, yet for some, they won’t recognize it. That part is my fault due to a lack of communication skills.
Thank you again
Ron
Sun Dance,
When you speak of the coach from Canada, I believe that you are speaking of Ben Cahoon.
He was one of the best wide receivers that we ever had. He is thought of even today as not one of the best, but instead the very best that the Canadian League ever had.
I loved the guy, but for some reason, he could not transfer his football genius onto those that he coached. Perhaps his quality just was not in the DNA of those that he was trying to teach. This all goes back to the fact that we can’t make sweet orange juice out of lemons no matter how great and how special our lemons really are. And indeed, they are great and special. I am grateful for them. We just need more oranges from P5 ranks in order to successful compete against other sweet oranges from P5 conferences.
I’m sorry Ron, sometimes it’s on the tip of my tongue but I can’t find it. The coach I was referring to was Tommy Hudspeth, who coached for the Detroit Lions and the Toronto Argonauts in the CFL. He actually did a pretty good job for BYU , ALMOST making 500 for a pretty terrible program. I was just a kid, but that’s when BYU first caught my attention
Sun Dance,
Sundance,
Thanks for the correction and/or update on Tommy Hudspeth. I always learn from reading your postings.
Sun Dance, one thing that we all tend to forget is that never before since before LE or during LE or since LE, have we played the SOS that we are not playing.
We are now starting to learn how to play a P5 schedule. When we increase from 4 -5 P5 teams per season to just 4 or more P5 teams per season with the total being 9 P5 teams per season than, we will finally be playing a P5 schedule and worthy of consideration for entrance into a P5 conference. Before, first under Pack 10/12 and later under Big 12, we were never really ready and we were completely without enough experience playing that kind of SOS. We are now learning.
We are now preparing. Before it was all words. Now it is less, if any at all, words and now it is all action. I like the direction that we are going. Last year, 2017, as terrible as it was, it was part of the growing pains that we must experience while preparing for the big event. It was the failure that brought about change with better and much more experienced coaches. I like what I see. I do have hope for the future. (Blue goggles or not).
Each season now, we play 5 powerhouse teams each season, where as in the past, we played maybe one or at the most two power house teams. Okay our NC year we may have played 3 or possible 4 could be counted as power teams, but not enough power to keep Washington Huskies from complaining for decades which probably is what is responsible for the BCS system and eventually the division between the P5 conferences and the G5 conferences.
Under Bronco, except for his last year before he bolted, we always programed for 10-2 11-1 or even 12-0 seasons which we sometimes succeeded with that goal and sometimes we did not. I never felt that we were truly great playing only
G5 or less teams each season with maybe 1 P5 team, until of course, his last season.
One last thought Sundance.
The 2019 season is a history busting season for home games. Get your season ticket as early in the morning as the box office opens and on the very first day, as they will all be sold out on the first day. For starters, look at our home games vs.
Thursday at Provo, the Utah Utes. (game opener)
Saturday, at Provo, the USC Trojans
Saturday at Provo, the Washington Huskies
Saturday, at Provo, the usually ranked, Boise State, wit an away game vs Tennessee.
Never in the history of BYU have we had a schedule like this. There will not be standing room in our stadium.
With the hire of Grimes and with the hire of those that Grimes hired, I am looking for a competitive season with possible wins over Arizona, Cal, and Boise State and probable losses under Washington and Wisconsin, and finally once again, after a long period of drought, a down to the last second decision between Utah Utes and BYU.
The rest of the games, in the theme of things, in preparation for the big dance, just don’t matter to me, of course unless we lose to any of them. In that event, the sting is too damaging to imagine.
I agree-i would rather be 7-6 with a tough schedule than 11-2 with a watered down schedule. I believe the future is bright for the offense. That said-the defense is a big question mark for me right now. I believe Mendenhall developed more aggressive and unpredictable defenses. Let’s hope I’m wrong. Right now I’m anxiously awaiting August and the qb battle that will go on. BYU received another 4 star commit starting in 2021. Bring on Arizona!