The Systematic Unraveling of BYU Sports Since The Glory Years Of The Late1970’s And 80’s

Much of this post comes from direct quotes from the Desert News, 11/21/17 by Dough Robinson and contributions from ■■■■ Harmon and Jeff Call in their article: “The Rise and Fall” My comments
are obviously not from their said article.

In 1980, Jim Mac Mahon threw a Hail Mary
touchdown pass to complete a 20 point comeback
in the final 3 minutes of the Holiday Bowl, later to be know as the Miracle Bowl.

We produced All American and future NFL quarterbacks like: Jim Mac Mahon, Steve Young, Robbie Bosco, Ty Detmer, Steve Sarkisian and a host of others, like they came off the assembly line.

We stayed out of politics. We didn’t tell everyone that we were better than everyone else, religiously, politically and socially. We were not hated and despised. We did not judge others. We left all judging to God. 1978 brought positive changes in the Church and in it’s members attitudes. We had no political, racial, sexual, or social targets. We treated all the way we would have them treat us.

We cracked the top 20 rankings nine times from 1977 till 1996. We won 23 conference championships, the 1997 Cotton Bowl, and the and in 1984, we won the National Championship. In 1990 we won a Heisman Trophy. We had it all.

During our Glory Years, on the Gridiron, 1972-1991, our Church Membership grew each year both Church growth compared to World Wide Growth. We outpaced our growth to the world growth each year.

       Church Growth    World Growth 

1972 4.14 1.94
1973 2.73 1.88
1974 3.12 1.79
1975 4.76 1.72
1976 4.77 1.71
1977 6.05 1.68

1978 4.98 1.71
1979 5.69 1.70

1980 5.35 1.70
1981 6.05 1.75
1982 4.92 1.76
1983 3.66 1.70

1984 5.41 1.69

1985 4.94 1.71
1986 4.18 1.74
1987 3.69 1.72
1988 5.11 1.69
1989 8.74 1.68

1990 6.19 1.57

1991 4.23 1.55

Than something happened, first slowly, and than faster, deeper, and more arrogant happened.

We became much more political, much more critical of those not of our fold, much more selective, much more arrogant and making excuses for our own failures instead of correcting bad situations and starting with 2014, look what has been happening.

2014 1.92 1.08
2015 1.70 1.08
2016 1.59 1.06

While the Church has often tried to connect the Mormon Church and the Catholic Church as having had a joint effort to defeat the Prop 8 campaign in the out of state, California election and defeat the LGBT community from being able to Marry, (Later overturned by the Supreme Court and found unconstitutional), the amount of suicides among that LGBT inside the Mormon Church hit epidemic proportions, (LGBT lives do matter), The Catholic Church Pope stated,

I paraphrase, as I do not remember the exact words:

(“ My intent is not to change doctrine, but to put it in different proper perspective”

“There are far too many more important issues to be addressed, like caring for the poor and achieving world peace and getting along in society, than wasting all the time on issues like the right to life vs free choice or on the LGBT issues.”)

It seems like the Catholic’s do not want a part of the connection that the Mormons want to connect themselves to.

It seems like, (and we refuse to acknowledge it or accept it), that the Catholic Church owned University, Notre Dame, no longer wants to have anything to do with the Mormon owned University, BYU as it cancelled it’s football commitments with us, at the
risk of losing millions of dollars in cancellation fees.
Yes I do realize that also at this time was ND’s connection to football with another conference which did have something to do, perhaps with the cancellations, maybe.—— !

Some other interesting figures:

In 1935, the year of my birth, we had 746,384 members.

In 1947 when I became active, void of politics, and a strong desire to get along with all, the membership was 1,016,170. I was 12 years old.

When I first attended BYU in school year 1953-54 in the quarter system, the membership was 1,246,362.
I was 18-19 years old.

By 1972 When Lavel Edwards came to BYU and started our Glory years with great innovation, never before experienced, our membership was at 3,218,908. I was 32.

By 1984 when we got our National Championship, our membership was 5,641,054. I was 49.

In 1990 when we got our Heisman Trophy, the membership was 7,761,179. I was 55.

Not much has happened since that time, except that our membership grew from the 1990 figure of
7,761,179 to 2012, when the membership grew by approximately double to the number of 14,782,473.

Since 2007, our growth in the Church, percentage wise, has been in a steady decline.

Growth:

2007 2.53%
2008 2.38%
2009 2.34%
2010 2.22%
2011 2.19%
2012 ———
2013 2.03%
2014 1.92%
2015 1.70%
2016 1.59%
2017 1.48%

WHAT WILL 2018 BRING?

During our time of declining growth, percentage wise, we have made it impossible for those like Jim Mahon, like Steve Sarkisian, like Lenny Gomez ( now Gregory), Like so many others, to get inside BYU.

That which was than thought of as minor violations with punishment which we than felt fit the violation to what has become thought of now as major violations that now call for expulsions or rejections or taken off the team and perhaps out of the University, i s now the rule and not the acceptation. (Unga/Davies/others).

How long would Jim Mahon lasted on our team today, if indeed, he ever slipped in by mistake today?

Overtime, when we see an opportunity to achieve, there is someone or something to shoot it down and often the target is our own foot.

“ BYU itself has chose a course that makes matters more difficult for it’s own athletic teams.”

A lot of the players from the 70’s and 80’s glory years that included the great 1984 team, under Lavel Edwards, could not qualify to get into BYU today.
Too bad. We are all God’s children, even those of us that from time to time, miss-behave.

We keep making it more and more impossible for our cougars to achieve, and than set back and say Why?
What’s Happening? It must be our higher standards,
(Sorry Stanford). It must be our no Sunday Play rule,
(Sorry Notre Dame, Boston College, Baylor, TCS, SMU, and other Faith Based Schools).
It must be Prejudice !!! Awe yes, it’s the other guys fault. We are good people. We never do anything wrong~! We are easy to get along with. Sorry (LGBT)
community.

Is there a correlation between how, good or bad, our football team does? Nobody knows, however, it
is likely to be a contributor and not the main event and not left out as a contributor either. (My opinion).

What I believe to be the real issues is that once we started believing that we were so superior over all non members, and over all Universities, not LDS owned, and over everyone else’s code of ethics vs our honor code, than it has come to pass that we became just too hard to get along with.

Changes need to be made sooner than later if we are to remain as a Christian Institution respected by the other Christian Institutions, as a Christian Institution…

Having the name alone, “The Church of Jesus Christ” just doesn’t cut it. We must learn to do onto others, as we would have the do onto us. We must leave all judging to God, lest we be judged.

R. Uharriet.

1 Like

Wow…

I have no words.

For perhaps the first time in my life I am speechless.

:astonished:

I have some words: so full of vitriol, so full of yourself, so full of fabrication and falsehood, so full of judgement, so full of anger and hate, so full of excrement. The Lord and the church does not dance to your fiddle, you can bet your posterior on that. If you dislike the church and the members of the church so much, let it go and live your life in peace. But gotta wonder if you are, in fact, a U of U troll. :weary:

I think RU has difficulties in spelling too. In reality the world has gone down hill drastically in the past quarter century. The Church is just a small part of world religions and philosophies. SA la vi.

The responses here certainly prove the authors point. I couldn’t agree more with the original post.

I’m just here for the comments.

On a more serious note, Ron, I appreciate all your data as well as your strong opinions. One paragraph I would challenge you on is when you said the below:

“We stayed out of politics. We didn’t tell everyone that we were better than everyone else, religiously, politically and socially. We were not hated and despised. We did not judge others. We left all judging to God. 1978 brought positive changes in the Church and in it’s members attitudes. We had no political, racial, sexual, or social targets. We treated all the way we would have them treat us.”

I was born in 1970, so my perspective is limited. But all my life I can safely say BYU and the Church have been widely hated and despised. In the mid 80’s, during our glory years, I remember an SI cover showing BYU as the most hated college football team in the nation.

But of course the Lord’s University is going to be despised. I actually don’t think the Church or BYU have changed much politically. We’ve always been politically neutral, yet we did take a rare stand with Prop 8 as you mention.

Big picture, I don’t agree with your general assertion that arrogance and pride have caused our sports problems. I think our demise is complicated. It’s a combination of recruiting hurdles related to the Honor Code, being an unpopular Mormon school, and having a poor or no Conference affliation. In the 80’s and 90’s we could mask those problems with brilliant coaching (passing game in football) and schemes and some star players like McMahon, S Young, Detmer, Ainge, etc. But coaching has improved and we certainly don’t outcoach or surprise anyone anymore.

Final big picture point is that I hugely respect your passion and love for BYU and our sports program.

There have been times in my lifetime that BYU football and basketball were worse than they are now so unless BYU’s demise is one of the signs of the times that the world is about to end then I would suggest that at some point BYU may return to the level of their glory years and if not then maybe they are just going to go about the business of educating people in a venue where morals and truth can be taught and where athletic prowess is of no concern. I would prefer to have both but maybe it isn’t possible anymore and if so then so be it.

I am going mostly from memory on the following records but I am 100% sure I am correct and anybody can look the information up on football and basketball reference.com if they don’t believe me. If you think it is bad now it can get worse and of course the reverse is true as well.

1959 football 3-7, 59-60 basketball 8-18
1960 football 3-8, 60-61 basketball 15-11
1961 football 2-8, 61-62 basketball 10-16
1962 football 4-6, 62-63 basketball 12-14
1963 football 2-8, 63-64 basketball 13-12

Those were some real dismal records for a five year period in both sports. A few of the basketball teams were better than the record indicates because of ambitious schedules but two winning seasons in five and barely winning in one isn’t much to write home about. There were no post season tournaments or bowl games. The current demise can get worse and it can get better based on the historical record. There were no conference championships in those years in either sport and the record against Utah in football was 0-5 and in basketball 3-7.

Are you having a bad day?

Uncalled for-biased-you can act better than that. Ron’s opinion stated in a reasonable manner. We may not agree, but you don’t have to try and prove his point

Thank you, I appreciate an objective response. I agree with Ron that players in the 80’s got away with more violations than today. Most of it is the huge increase in media and social media today. Every thing that happens is under a huge microscope and the churches can’t deal with much privately anymore. In the 80s the defense’s were not adjusting well to the passing attacks. Today they have caught up making it more difficult, but perhaps still attainable.

Yes, football was pretting bad until Virgil Carter came along and then Edwards took the program to record setting heights. Basketball had some great teams in the late 40’s and 50’s when the NIT was the big tourney. Cosic rejuvenated BYU, but they had some decent teams and in the Ainge and Arnold era more outstanding teams.

In the mid and late 1960’s the BYU football and basketball teams faced unending protests and lurid anti-BYU demonstrations like men exposing themselves to the Cougarettes at New Mexico and the drunks at places like Wyoming with fans throwing beer on BYU players, fans and cheer leaders. Some drunks urinated on BYU players and cheer leaders and fans from the stands at different locations. All because they demonstrators and protestors claimed they wanted the Priesthood for black males. Most of these people had no concept what it meant to have the Priesthood. Yet the BYU basketball won the NIT in 1966 and won the WAC and hosted the first round of the 16 team NCAA basketball tournament. Too bad BYU had to face Coach John Wooden’s unbeatable UCLA Bruins in the first game. The other two teams in the Regional in the Smith Field House were Long Beach State and San Francisco coached by Jerry Tarkarian.

The year BYU won the WAC and lost to UCLA in the Smith Field House was 1965. I don’t remember our over all 1965 basketball record, but we went 20 and 5 in the regular season in 1966 and beat WAC champion Utah twice. Then we went 3 and 0 in the NIT, all games played in the old Madison Square Garden. We beat Tempe in the first game, Bobby Knight’s Army in the semi-final and we beat NYU by about 30 points on their home court for the NIT
Championship. ■■■■ Nemelka was first team All American for BYU.

Wow, what a sad behavior those people (NM, Wyo, etc) did to those BYU group. I was born 1956 and I was too young to know what was going on at those time while living in Bay Area. I came to BYU 1979 - 1985 (good times) and all I hear some stuff going on at those two schools wasn’t so bad during my time there compare to your time.

1979, all I remember we were starting going back to Holiday Bowl year after year which was nice and we were moving on to other bowls consistently with LE days. But today P5 schools are getting too many quality players & coaches which is ridiculous and a lot of $$$. I have lost interest watching all those football & basketball games from all those P5 schools. I thought it was stupid allowing both UGA & Bama in the NC game. They need to expand to 8 or 16 schools playoff that way one of G5 can play in it.

Just decided to turn it on him and see how he likes it. I don’t care if Ron loves the church and members or hates it or anywhere in between. But it is very tiring to have him repeat his dislike over and over and over and over and over and over - 15 to 20 times. State your dislike once and let it go or go away. I grew up in a part of the country where Mormons are hated and thought to be tools of the devil, so his dislike is nothing new to me. But once stated is enough.

Ron - I admit I don’t follow this board closely all the time. But can I ask if you are an active member of the church who fully supports BYU?

Yeh I remember those times, but didn’t understand much as I was little then. I remember Duck Nemelka and I believe his name was Jeff Congden and a few players like that

In 65 the record was 21-7 but against some very stiff competition and they were ranked in the top 10 in the final AP poll prior to the NCAA tournament. The WAC was only a 6 team league at the time but there were no patsies in it. Utah finished last in the WAC that year but went 17-9 against a pretty good schedule. In 66 Utah not only won the WAC but went to the final four and BYU beat them twice and as stated won the NIT when it still meant something. BYU also shared the WAC title in 67 and 69. The latter half of the 60s were great for basketball after a dismal first half of the decade. BYU sports have had their ups and downs over the years.

BYU is a good mid major program with some outstanding seasons over the years. That is what they have always been. The times when they are real good gives us all delusions of grandeur that they are on the cusp of being a national power but that is not what BYU is. BYU is not, and never has been, a national sports power. They are above average with some special seasons sprinkled in.

The purpose of BYU has always been to educate and do it in harmony with the teachings of the church and uphold high moral standards. Sports will never drive the train.

Couldn’t agree more