Next time you smash your thumb with a hammer remember "gee whiz"
I try anyways to remember who I am and representing. But, for those who slip up in those painful circumstances, there is no equivalents to reacting to a smashed thumb and the willful and premeditated foul use towards others. That was my pointā¦
Dave,
Thanks for your reply. Even in the areas that we do not completely agree, I appreciate your comments and learn from them and hopefully leave my thinking open to possible change.
"All I can say BYU will never be in the same level to most of those Top P5 Football Schools "
I agree that without change from the way we do things, you are correct.
I do not agree that change is not possible.
After 62 years, we have coke back on campus. In 1955 it was only on campus for a short time and it was not on campus at anyother time. Yes, change is possible. We use to have our missionaries attend school for two years and than go on their missions. Now they can go on their missions before starting school. Yes, there has been changes in our Honor Code regarding how we deal with reported rape case and other issues as well. Changes are possible if the will is there to make those changes. The question is: How committed to BYU football and how committed is the objective to be a competative member of the P5 conferences are the Brothern?
I like your idea of playing all the celler dwellers of each of the P5 conference. I am speaking of the consistant, year after year, cellar dwellers. Samplle scheudle might include for year 2020, but using todayās rankings:
ACC:
Wake Forest, #45, Duke, #47 Va.
Big 12
#114 Baylor
Big 10
Pa 12
SEC
On the other hand, coke has never been banned in the church. Elder McConkie is the only general authority I can remember writing or saying anything about caffeinated sodas. Itās never been on the temple interview questions nor an honor code violation for students or staff.
However, the church used to have Mission Presidents handle some worthy issues instead of sending missionaries back home. But, in the early 2,000ās missionaries were sent home for all moral and most physical issues. Moral clarity is needed more now than in the past. Not less moral clarity.
What are you referring too here Scott?
Mission President have always handled worthy issues of Missionaries since the first mission. There are certain things the they have lea way in for sending missionaries home (Morality, WofW, etc), other things they can work around.
Drinking Coke or Pepsi? When I was on my mission, they asked us not to drink caffeinated drinks because it would not set a good example for the investigators or the youth in the church.
And, that was one of those Mormon myths. Iām not saying sodas are healthy. But, bad example? Thatās like saying its a bad example for drinking coffee or tea? I know lots of great non-members who do.
The reason not to drink hot drinks is because we covenant not to because the Lord asked us not to.
As for missionaries, Mission Presidents would handle moral issues unless they felt they could not. Now, any moral issue comes up and they send them immediately home.
No, they keep quite a few of them with moral problems out on the mission, too. They do not just send them home, typically. It is the depression and anxiety ones or the phantom back pain ones who typically come home early (unless a major commandment is broken).
Nopeā¦not correct.
please backup your comment with documentationā¦
the determination of when to send someone home is solely based on the severity of the moral issue. that is at the mission president dis creation and inspiration.
Thatās 1970ās remembrance. Back that up with todayās directive 
Grassshopper,
While not in print, like street drugs are not in print, we were taught that any drink with caffein in it was against the word of wisdom. It was at least implied, and yes, it was asked for temple recommend back in the 50ās, and my guess is before the 50ās also. I was married in 1955 and I was asked.
Ron, your memory is not correct, kind of like the players who supposedly played in football games you attended. Caffeine has never been against the Word of Wisdom.
There were questions Iāve been asked that shouldnāt have been by a bishop concerning sexual activity. Iām sure you are correct that a bishop asked about caffeinated soda. But, it wasnāt correct to do so. It was McConkie that put that in writing. However, section 89 is called the Word of Wisdom. It probably is wise not to drink anything that can be detrimental to our health. But that is different than what can keep us from entering the temple.
Actually Ron is correctā¦
When I first joined the church back in mid 1970ās, it was commonly taught that the reasons we did not drink tea or coffee was because of the caffeine found in them.
In fact, as recent as President Hinckley, this was still common understanding, While on the Larry King show, a caller asked about the Word of Wisdom, then Larry asked about Caffeine
Larry King: No to caffeine?
Gordon B. Hinckley: No to caffeine, coffee and tea.
Source: http://www.lds-mormon.com/lkl_00.shtml
this teaching was not based on any āDoctrineā, but this notion was taught during the 1970ās. It kind of in the same ball park as people using Bruce R. McConkieās āMormon Doctrineā as research for their lessons.
President Hinckley put a stop to that, I think it was around 2010 time frame when the First Presidency asked teachers to stop using the book for reference material in their lessons.
So I think you owe Ron an apology here Thawk.
I had a member of the Stake Presidency refused me a Temple recommend for drinking Pepsiā¦ I asked him if he wanted to call the Church office building or should I?
I then handed him the quote from President Kimball that says asking about colaās in a temple recommend interview was wrong.
He got up, went and talked to the Stake President, came back with my Temple recommend signed.
Funny part, this guyās wife was addicted to Diet Cokeā¦ LOL
Members of the church do tend to stretch the Word of Wisdomā¦ Being over weight is against the word of wisdomā¦
I believe President Hinckley said it best āanything that can make you become addicted too, is not living the word of wisdomāā¦ Paraphrasing hereā¦ but his main point is watch out for stuff that you can become addicted too.
Thereās no donāt people can be addicted to caffeine, chocolate and other substances. My girlfriend in high school got high on coke a cola. Section 89 is headed the Word of Wisdomā¦
Scott,
Scott, I do agree with you.
However, I do have problems when things, for years, have been allowed to continue, that are not doctrine, but presented as doctrine, until many years later, when we are told that it is not doctrine and we are left wondering, why did it take so many years for the correction.
Coke, War in heaven, Cane/Able, Mexican Branches instead of allowing them to attend our white congregations, and I expect someday the LGBT community will be addressed and determined that it was opinion and not doctrine as to the way we see this community. Our opinions at this time really doesnāt matter. Only time will tell. Past history has taught me that only time will tell. Back in the 40ās and 50ās, it would have been heresy to suggest that the war in heaven was only opinion.
Elder Oaks really doubled-down on this in the last conference. I see a number of things, including the November 2015 policy banning ordinances for children of gay-married parents (and defining gay marriage as apostasy automatically requiring a disciplinary council) and emphasis on the Proclamation on the Family being a revelation as a form of āburning our ships on the shoreā ā making it so that there is no turning back (normalizing and āde-criminalizationā of homosexuality and gay marriage in the Church) on this. I think that this strikes at the fundamentals of the purpose for our being here in a way that the priesthood ban and polygamy did not, which is why there canāt be a revelation in the future undoing it.
Why the Proclamation hasnāt been added to the D&C as Official Declaration 3, I donāt know.
Translate please, because this makes no sense to me.
I am not sure where you get the idea there was no āwar in heavenā because it is clearly stated in the book of JST Revelation 12:6
āAnd there was war in heaven; Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought against Michaelā there was one, it did happen.
As for caffeine, I believe the reason it became so popular to think it was the reason for Coffee and Tea to be banned was because caffeine is a major item both drinksā¦ So people āAssumedā that was the reasonā¦
This is a really good article produced by FAIR an LDS think tank type group about the whole āHot Drinksā issue.
https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Word_of_Wisdom/Hot_drinks
The one that gets me and NO ONE has been able to explain is the blacks and the priesthoodā¦ Brigham Young banned blacks from the priesthood for no apparent doctrinal reasonā¦ Our current First Presidency can find no documentation supporting the banā¦ Personally, I think I will wait until the Lord sorts it all outā¦