Really what? You make a statement without any point. Really Sundance?
ok i know this is an old post and i shouldnt probably respond to it, but never-the-less I will. out of anyone i’ve read, you probably have the best grasp on the HC conduct. in essence, there are some reasonable requests we can make of students if they are to attend BYU. I actually like the Oral Roberts version. i dont care for extremists who take their personal prejudices and try and inflict them on other people. Just like coke, other things will be falling by the wayside soon. Whether a person has lengthly hair or a trimmed beard or handle bar mustache does not keep them out of what is truly the Lords house-the temples-and it certainly shouldnt keep them out of a university which is certainly not the Lord’s Un iversity, even if i am partial to BYU. if some could be so idiotic to say that Jesus didnt have a beard-who really cares?-it would be more idiotic to suggest that half the church presidents didnt sport beards. i don’t care if anyone prefers clean shaven faces-thats their right to groom themselves to their own comforts, but that is where it should end. In the end BYU is what it was intended to be-an institution of higher learning-teachers of correct principles-instructors of tolerance. It was not chartered to be an instrument of discrimination or intolerance
read on Grasshopper
I was partially with you until you slid backwards and spewed out liberal talking points. Where is it in the teachers handbook of BYU we are teachers of intolerance? What does facial hair have to do with discrimination? When I taught at a private catholic high school I was required to wear a buttoned shirt and tie. Was I being discriminated against? That’s what I call liberal insanity logic.
A private school can decide on their own what correct principles are going to be without being discriminated against from liberal insane jealous nonsense.
If BYU wants to impose principles above the Temple standards that’s up to BYU. See, the reason I came to BYU as a non-member was partially because of the high moral and honor code standards. I thought it made BYU and the students stand out from the rest of the society that was deteriorating in morality and ethics.
It’s humerous as I am currently a mission leader. we were conducting a class on the 89th session of the doctrine and covenants. it got off track as these things tend to do and revolved around coke and how it was probably one of the unexpressed 'things you shouldn’t partake of". i had to reign in the class and get them back on track of what the word of wisdom was totally about. Later the next week it was announced that BYU would be selling coke and coke products on campus. Yes BYU is slow to change, but change they will. It’s amazing how some fanatical person can change the demeanor of a school like BYU, but along will come a reasonable person that will truly understand that freedom is a God inspired gift. Man brought in the inquisition to punish people, who in their opinion were heretics against the holy law. BYU will change for the better about things that don’t matter and continue to resist the things that are truly ungodly. President Monson was a great leader, a great example of how to treat people and what was really important in life. you get way to caught up in liberalism and conservatism-it is only a matter of right and wrong. go back and read King Benjamins
address to his people-it might give you something to think about
Floyd,
I always appreciate your intelligent, non threatening post. It is a joy to read them. I realize that you do not alway
agree with my thinking, but when you do disagree, you do it respectfully and I honor and appreciate that very much.
Unlike the majority, I do not believe that it is the Honor Code that holds us back. I do believe that if we fixed the real problems, the Honor Code would be an (NON issue). It was never an issue under LaVel Edwards.
(Awe yes, I do remember the problems, i;e. Jim et al). But the Honor code never held us back before and it should not hold us back now. It is our unwillingness to correct the real problems that makes us use the Honor Code as an excuse for not making the needed corrections. That is my opinion.
Awe yes, without correcting the real problems, the Honor Code is indeed an added burden, but not really the main issue.
President Monson was also a big proponent of being against gay marriage. He put money into it and got us in California to fight it. We won but the courts were too liberal to win the battle. Drinking Coke has never been in the WoW even though Elder McConkie thought so.
Fads will change. But Commandments probably won’t. But, BYU is in control of deciding as long as the Brethren agree. The students are still to adhere to them and athletes will have to decide. I doubt they care about hair length. They care more about if they can continue to live carnal lives or not as they do in high school.
Floyd,
When the graph shows ups and downs, with a steady upward trend, that, in my opinion is a normal progression.
On the other hand, when the graph shows very little ups with many downs, with a steady downward trend,
that is the time to get out of the market.
What we are now doing, reminds me of the OC that calls the first 3 downs, (a run through the middle) with
no gain and perhaps a loss of yardage each time.
The fourth down comes up in the red (blue) zone. Does the OC try the run again through the middle on the
4th down to go for 7 points in the first quarter of the game, or does he kick the field goal for a sure 3 points?
My anology is this:
We hired a Heisman Trophy Winner with 14 years of NFL experience, but no OC experience on the college
Level, but we hired him anyway without the experience, and he failed. Do we hire another OC that was
successful as a line coach but no OC experience?
Apparently the thinking is that we do. Go figure!!!
(How much NFL experience does the new line coach coming to BYU as an OC have? Does he have a
Heisman Trophy? Was he as great as the one we fired? Really???
When we (had), (past tense), our hopes of becoming a P5 team in a P5 conference by 2024 at the time
the new conference alignement is expected to come, corresponding with the new TV Contracts, we than
made many claims of being the best of the non P5 teams.
We thought and we expressed to the College Football World, that we are a shoe in and the only logical
choice for the P5 addition. Now there are 16 G5 teams ranked above us and Utah State
is only ranked 1 point below us. Our recruiting is worse than any year in the past 60 years.
When all the other schools, (16 of them), are making all the necessary changes to get chosen as the
new P5 team but we are not making the necessary changes,
WHAT OTHER THAN FAILURE CAN WE EXPECT???
Instead, we blame the Honor Code for the reason we will not be accepted. Unless we make those
necessary changes now, there is no hope for us.
Even the AD is now saying that our lack of success is because many feel that the Honor Code is
holding us back and he assures us that we will give up football before we give up the Honor Code.
Sorry, but this is blowing smoke in our collected faces.
The honor code is only an excuse for not doing what needs to be done, and done now. We are
running out of time between now and 2024.
We lost perhaps the best LDS QB in the Nation to Stanford. Other great players on our list we
lost to the Utes. The graph is headed sharply in the wrong direction.
The Honor Code is not the issue. If the real problems are not solved, than the HC because an
addition to the problem, but the honor code, in itself, is not the issue. It is very popular to blame
the HC for the lack of success, but that is only an excuse for not correcting the real problems.
I think you know what I believe the real issues are. If you forgot, please ask me and I would be very
happy to state them again.
I hope that you believe me when I say that I do not complain for the sake of complaining. I do not
point fingers for the sake of pointing fingers. I do not find fault for the sake of finding fault.
What I am doing, is fighting with all of my mind, heart, and soul, to save our BYU Cougars from
extinction beyond
2024.
If changes are not made and made very soon, we will no longer have Football beyond 2024 and
that is more than I can handle. The cougars have been a major part of my life, my love and my passion
for more years than most people positing on this site has been alive.
Ron
The courts are supposed to decide what is constitutional. I dont really care what the gays do or dont do. I care about peoples rights being violated and my rights being upheld. The churches welfare program is one of the most liberal in the world and out of ten people receiving welfare, if eight were abusing it and only 2 deserved it, they would consider it well spent. Conservative/liberal are name tags-The church is the best of both worlds.
I’m trying to follow this thread but to be honest, I have no idea how to even begin summarizing what’s being argued.
Could someone try summarizing this argument in an unemotional way.
Sorry Sundance, not really addressing you, just feel like the convo is…convoluted.
i agree C I have no idea how it got where it did-sorry-it happens with Grasshopper-time to end it
The welfare system was never and still is never set up as a dole system. So, you should care how the sacred money given freely is spent. That was just a terrible thing to say. Admit it.
With that said, if the courts don’t uphold the sacred commandments of the Lord your rights are going to be gone.
for all your ignorance that was spoken by a general authority and discussed in Stake high council so back off about things you know nothing about please
Then you misunderstood them. Not surprised:-)
im surprised they let you run free😉
All through the 30,s, 40’s and up to the middle 50’s, it was taught in all of our Sunday School Classes and in Sacrament meetings that Coke was as bad for us as Coffee and Tea. Probable the reason Coke, like many other things that are bad for us, was not put into the Word of Wisdom is that those things were not yet known about when the Word Of Wisdom was established. We were taught that it is the caffeine in the Coffee, Tea, and Coke that is bad for us and we should avoid all that contained Caffeine. It wasn’t until we held a major share of the Coco Cola Business in 1955 that these lessons discontinued.
Sacred money ??? Really??? Have you ever heard of the United Order???
Thanks again Floyd.
It seems that it is more important for Grasshopper to show the LDS Community, how righteous he is, then to listen, (read), what is really being said and try to understand the intent of what is being said. In the words of a great GA,
“GA’s are not GA in all things, When there are things that need expert advice, seek out the authority that can give the expert advice”. ( Okay, bad paraphrase, but you understand what I am trying to say).
My intent is not to find fault, as grasshopper says, with the brethren, and try to lower standards. Grasshopper only proves that he is an extremely poor reader or that he has attention deficit disorder, as it has never been suggested by me, as he claims, that the honor code is the problem. Indeed, I have always been the one to argue that the Honor Code was not the problem, but instead, it was the Honor Code, that many people, (like grasshopper) like to use, as an excuse for not fixing the real problems.
More hairier???
Clausewitz,
I share your frustration on how to follow this thread that seems to be meandering without any
benefiting as a contributory to any positive solutions for which the tread is intended,
“Cougar fans sometimes disagree on the process to achieve the same goal” (That’s the intended thread)
It seems that (some) Cougar Fans do not understand the meaning of: “The process to achieve the same goal”.
Hopefully, the same goal, perhaps with different approaches to reach that goal, is to brainstorm
on what we as fans, as players, as coaches, and as administrators, can do to help the BYU Cougars
improve to the point it once had, and beyond that point, and again, become a significant Football
team in the world of College Football.
We ask, “What can we do to make ourselves desirable to the P5 conferences for when the 2024 realignment once
again begins among those conference as they prepare to make new TV Contracts?”
Some people, (grasshopper and the like), would rather challenge ones loyalty to the Church and it’s standards, and in doing so, miss the whole point of the thread.
Some, (grasshopper and the like), would rather get off on the Honor Code tantrum,
using the HC as a reason not to do the other things that can and need to be addressed in order to be desirable to the conferences that we want and that we need to be a part of in order to survive.
grasshopper finds much more satisfaction expressing his views on why we can not improve than he ever gives thought to how to improve. He likes to blame the Honor Code, which in my opinion, the Honor Code has very little to do with weather or not we improve.
I think that one of the best things that we can do to improve , is to change the image that we are just too hard to get along with. (grasshopper is an excellent example).
I think that another thing we need to do to improve, is to treat BYU Football like we would any other Church Business, but perhaps even better.
We need to take time to do the math and spend more money to make more money.
We need to address the issues of bowl games, of TV Contracts, of TV ratings, and of tickets sold for home games and for road games.
We need to consider the rent we can we can charge for the home game concessions.
We need to consider using the same funds, if necessary that we use to purchase department stores, radio stations, tv networks, coco cola stock, rail roads and the like. Stop using the excuse that tithing can not be used for football. I would rather that we invest in our BYU Cougars than to invest in the Coco Cola Company.
I have been spending approximately $150.00 per seat, (Stub Hub), for each game times two people. The last game in Hawaii, They could not sell tickets for $15.00. They tried to give tickets away free. Even with the free tickets, they could not fill half the stadium.
We need to look at $6,000,000 or more, per year, coaches that are as likely to get their teams $17 to $24 million dollar bowl games as $1 million per year coaches are able to get $750,000. to $1-1/4 million dollar bowls.
We need to look at $6,000,000 plus coaches, per year, that are able to get their teams $25,000,000 per year+ TV contracts when it is doubtful that ESPN will renew in a couple years, our $10 Million dollar TV Contract.
$6,000,000 + per year coaches, fill their 80,000 to 100,000 + bleachers with top dollar ticket purchased.
The venders at their stadiums pay top rent and the stadiums are sold out like ours use to be sold out when we were also a significant team. Just a reminder that our last game, we could not give away enough free tickets to fill Hawaii’s stadium half full.
Anyone that speaks for a need to make some significant changes in the way others perceive us, (Arrogant) or the way we see, or don’t see BYU football as a business, (Penny wise, but pound foolish), as disloyal people.
We, (so called disloyal people), are seen as going against the Church. We are seen as wanting to do away with the Honor Code. We are seen in ways that only exist in the minds of (grasshopper) and those like him that find more pleasure in finding fault than making suggestions for improvement.
I challenge anyone to go back into the archives of Cougarfan and find one post from this self rightious man,(grasshopper), that offers any positive solutions to improve the quality of our Cougar Football program. There isn’t any. He spends his time attacking those with suggestions for improvement.