how many games you been to at LES in the past 3 years? We used to fill that place every single game, now it only fills when Utah, BSU or USU come to town. Were it not for the ESPN contract and late night games, BYU would not be recruiting anyone past a 2 star athlete. ESPN’s contract is the single reason why BYU is still relevant. That goes away and you would see BYU run to the American conference or worse, crawl back to Craig Thompson and ask for his forgiveness.
As Indy wears on and BYU starts the year with a gauntlet of 4 ranked P5 teams, we stumble into the 2nd half of the season with injuries to just about every star in BYU’s roster and we end up losing to bottom feeders. Fans lose interest and the program struggles to win enough games to go bowling.
That is the tip of the iceberg, the underbelly is BYU basketball gets thrown into the Rec League playing in gyms that seat 25OO and we asked Rose to recruit to that and make it to the big dance every year. (when was the last time we did make it to the big dance?) It was Jimmer and the 1st year BYU was in the WCC, after that we have been far from dancing-Before, BYU was in the NCAAs every single season. So ask me how much BYU Basketball has enjoyed Indy?
Ron, don’t be confused with what I said, “Indy is not working” and assume that I an saying we should go back to the MWC. Craig Thompson lied to us, can not be trusted. I don’t think many fans would ever want to go back to the MWC as long as he is there.
Indy in fb doesn’t have much to do with bb. Our basketball woes were mainly coaching and recruiting related. Rose just wasn’t that good of a coach without a good assistant coach with him on the bench. If GU can recruit and perform there is no reason BYU can’t increase the performance of their bb team.
The fb team just has to get good coordinators and they should be fine. Playing 4 or 5 P5 teams in a row is possible with good coordinators. Here we go again with the “we want into a G5 league” with the thinking it will make our fb program better or more relevant.
How so? List the positive reasons that BYU should leave Indy as a football team. I will then list the reasons that we shouldn’t.
The basketball team is suffered playing in the WCC. I won’t go into Roses’ cancer and how he was different after. I will say that recruiting to the WCC is a big challenge.
Ron dredged this up from last year. I merely answered him back as a curtesy. I have not desire returning to a G5. just stated that as an Indy, we lose a few and fans tune out. Not even remotely as fun as being in a league where we were in it til the last game and winning meant a championship.
“sports are not as high on the agenda from our Board of Directors as most P-5 schools”,
Texcoug, I agree with your statement. I don’t agree that it is the way it should be, but I do agree with what you say about it.
I believe that all that we do, should be done the best that we are capable of doing, and even then, we should continue to improve from that point.
If something that we do is not worth our effort, than we should stop doing it and put our efforts into doing that which would deserve our total effort.
If football is not all that important in the theme of things, than perhaps we SHOULD drop it in favor of creating a major Medical Department, complete with all the doctorate degrees and the finest hospital in all of Utah. (Perhaps, even then, we would find an excuse to say this is not all that important in the theme to things) Perhaps, we may say, that this is not important in fulling our Mission Statement.
Perhaps having a major department to cure cancer within the said Medical School is not that important in the theme of things and is not really that important to our mission goal.
Perhaps our mission goal could be more inclusive, be in academic, sports, arts, and humanities.
Give us your list on why or how we can compete in P-5 football while not being in a P-5 conference. Not being in a P-5 conference IS OUR PROBLEM. But trying to compete against P-5 teams, four or five in a row and not being in a P-5 conference does not work. So long as BYU is in Indy and NOT in a P-5 conference will keep us from being competitive against P-5 teams. To recruit 4-5 star players and not being in a P-5 conference does not work. The Utes took some time to become competitive in the P-5 PAC-12, several years in fact. But now after nine years in the PAC-12 they can recruit on a level playing field with the P-5 teams of the PAC-12. And the Utes did not have to play P-5’s as much as we do now without being in a P-5 conference. They had an excellent HC and won a couple of big bowl games and were invited into the PAC. But BYU is not liked by most P-5 teams because of our standards and some of the Church stands on social issues. Utah is a state school without the social standards of BYU. They got in because they won those big bowl games and have social standards fitting in with most of the P-5 state schools. They never had to go Indy to get into a P-5 conference.
RU: Do you really think that the Church has the money to build a medical school on the BYU campus? I knew President Ernest Wilkinson when the decision was made to start a law school at BYU. I learned that he recommended to the Breathren to put up a law school. He was quoted as saying that the Church does not have the money to build and maintain a Medical School at BYU. Besides the Church has had and maintained Primary Children’s Hospital for several generations. The point was that the state of Utah has and gets funding for the Medical School at the University of Utah. As far as P-5 recruiting for football, the University of Utah never had to go Indy to get into the P-5 PAC-12. They had a very good HC and won two very important big bowl games and subsequently were invited directly into the PAC-10/12. They never had to go Indy nor did they ever play 4-5 straight P-5 teams in a row like BYU. Instead the U took their lumps for a few years in the PAC-12 and eventually were able to recruit competitively in the PAC-12 while getting the much larger P-5 PAC-12 football TV money than BYU. BYU gets the pittance TV money from ESPN, yes more than we ever got in the MWC, but nowhere near, not even a half or a third TV money than the Utes get from the P-5 PAC-12 annual TV money. I have heard that BYu gets somewhere around $6 million from ESPN for fb TV money. PAC-12 teams get somewhere in the vicinity of between $13-20 million a year for fb TV money. Plus their P-5 basketball money is way more than BYU gets in bball money. Being in Indy fb and the WCC in bball BYU cannot compete with P-5 teams like Utah and the PAC-12. So where does the big-time money come to pay for P-5 coaches and recruiting football players at the levels of P-5 or 3-5 star recruits. Generally speaking BYU has always done better in basketball than in football in recruiting. Our once in a generation football success at G-5 came in the Lavell Edwards years. Although our basketball team has never won an NCAA championship, but we have won many conference championships in basketball in the WAC and in the MWC and won the NIT in 1951 and 1966.
For starters We have to beat teams that aren’t P-5. We have squandered 3 wins away this year that prevent us from becoming credible. We can schedule 4-5 P-5 teams and win 2 or 3 of them. But we can only afford to lose 1 G5 game a year. If we were in a P5 conference right now we would still be a bad team. We would be a worse team if we were in a G-5 conf. The few good athletes we get right now just wouldn’t come to BYU. They like playing on TV and having exposure.
ESPN pays BYU 8-9 million a year. Plus we get payment for away games from P5 teams. Total rev would be about 13-15 million. We are on the lowest end of P-5 teams.
The solution is to have good coaching. We don’t have that right now. We have to compete and win most games to have a shot at P-5.
If the reason BYU has not been invited to a P5 conference is due to its stances on social issues, then all the other reasons you and others suggest isn’t the reason for BYU not being invited. It’s not the coaching. It’s not the wins or losses. Utah got invited because it doesn’t have the same religious standards. Quite the opposite. Even though most students are probably LDS. It’s a state run and supported school.
Right now, we get lots of games with P5 teams. You are right. To be taken more seriously and get more top LDS athletes as well as some non-LDS athletes, we have to beat the G-5’s and 50% or more of the P5’s. Coaching is a big issue. Athletes depend upon coaches to teach them properly. They depend upon them to develop offenses and defenses that beat all G5’s and catch P5’s off guard. To do this we also need great athletes.
Most of our players are 2 and 3 star athletes out of high school. Many go on missions. Many redshirt. Time allows for physical development and skill development. Many end up becoming 4 and 5 star athletes over time. BYU can play with other big time universities. But it takes great effort from coaches to develop athletes and themselves. So we don’t get coaches with enough experience. The coaches we have can develop to where we win games we should win and win games we shouldn’t. The athletes have to do likewise. No matter what, I don’t see BYU in a P5 unless those conferences stop being bigots against religion, Christ’s commandments and drop leftist political ideology.
The players did not execute the plays they are suppose to run. That is pretty obvious.
The coaches did not coach or use the personnel effectively. Where was McChesney? when the RB’s needed a run, Why stick with Wilson when he “Clearly” was not getting the job done? Why did they not use the same philosophy in the USU and BSU games (Drop 8 and blitz the heck out it)?
I blame the coaches for the simple reason that the refused for whatever reason to bench players not performing (Wilson, anyone on the O-line). and replace them people who have demonstrated that they could hold thier own (QB Romney, O-line Freshman, etc).
I would give the coaches a D, for the simple reason that the players did not do their jobs either.
It is just baffling to me. Dave MeCan and I were talking between breaks. He said that Wilson was on fire in practices and could not believe how bad he looked out there.
I bet him that We would finally get it done against Utah next year with all their attrition. Dave just looked at me like I was trippin. So when the guy most in the know does that…reality check.
I remember something that Coach Edwards said a long time ago about this.
He said there are practice players (those who did really good in practice and not in games) and game players (Those who did not look good in practice but did well in games).
In my opinion Wilson is part of the first group, while Brandon Doman and Robbie Bosco (who openly said he hated practices) is an example of the latter group