I'm saying something to get screamed at. Go ahead and yell if you must

Football
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I am not suggesting that we change doctrine. I am not suggesting that we give into the wishes of the masses. I’m not suggesting that football in more important than what we believe in. (Disclaimer for Roy Weber and Jim Hawks)

The Catholics believe with all their heart mind and soul, that the Pope is non fallible.
The Mormons know that the General Authorities are Non fallible.
The Calvary Chapel Harvest group hates each of us and they preach more hate for what they
call the Cult Mormons than they spend time teaching about the Love of Jesus Christ.
Can’t we just all get along?

The new current Pope said, " We Catholics do not believe in a Catholic God.
No, he said, "We believe in one God for all mankind on earth regardless of the religious preferences, their color of their skin, their nationality, or their sexual preferences.

That same Pope said, “I am not changing doctrine. I am only changing the importance
we put on some issues in our doctrine.”

He said we spend far too much thought on the commandments regarding the women’s right to choose, vs. the Right to Life.

He said we spend far too much time on the commandments of the LGBT community issues.
We don’t spend nearly enough time on obeying the commandments to Love one another, To do onto others as we would have them do onto us. to judge not lest ye be judged and to leave all judging to God.

We don’t spend nearly enough time considering what we need to do to help the homeless, the poor, the hungry, and those in need.

No, the Pope said, he was not changing doctrine. He was just changing some of the importance we put on the issues we need to address in the here and now, in comparison to some of the other issues that has been taking all of our time and energy.

I like that direction that the Pope is taking his people.

My suggestion, as far as the honor code goes, is that we can, without changing doctrine, change our approach to be more favorable to those outside of our own fold.
Where it talks about the LGBT community, instead, have the wording and the action be the same rules that apply to everyone be they straight or Lesbian/Gay.

Instead of saying that the LGBT can not show open affection for each other on Campus sexually, instead, just say that there will be no sexual affection between any couples on Campus. (Period). No need to single out LGBT community. This is not changing doctrine. It is making it less offensive to those that have different beliefs and values than we have.

I think we need to learn to respect all people and for those people that are different from us, we need to respect the values that work for them, knowing that they do not work for us, but remembering that they, like us, have the free agency to choose right from wrong and the Lord will reward according to the choices they make.

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Brother Ron,
I think you might be mistaken…if I read your comments correctly, or you are using a sweeping generalization…you declared that the Brethren claim to be non-fallable. I believe they have declared otherwise. They do represent the Lord and can share the Lord’s wishes for us when moved upon by the Spirit. But, if I remember correctly, they don’t make all decisions under the direction of the Spirit. That’s what I remember reading the brethren ’ s comments.

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No screaming-just living the gospel to the best I can-and not screaming at anyone-even Clinton. It’s really all I can do-all I am capable of at this point. I can’t judge anyone on this board-they may be more tuned in than I am. Besides I don’t have the time-I’m too busy trying to glean as much insight and intelligence with the time I have left. Sometimes I want to scream and rant at the stupidity I see going on in the world, but I don’t have time and besides I am like most of you-my sphere of influence is mostly zilch. I can vote, I can try and live a good example, I can serve in the church, I can do any number of little positive acts, but in the end, it does no good at all to scream and rant or be self-righteous or critical or any of the little negative things we seem to love to do. Won’t get you where you want to go-this I believe-we won’t get there. Take care Ron life at it’s worst can be confusing and unpalatable so you just do what you can. Someone once said some people were surprised they made it to the Celestial Kingdom, others expected to be there and found they weren’t.

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Kevin,

Thank you for your reply. I do agree with you totally> I believe completely which you say.
I do not have as good of communication skills as you. If I would have posted the same thing, we have two brethren on this site that would want me Excommunicated for heresy.

I have stated in several postings, that the Lord is probably too busy with world crisis dealing with wars and rumors of wars, the Nuclear threat with North Korea, Iran, Palestine and others that may or may not be willing to sell or give the capabilities to terrorist. I have stated fhat the Lord probably leaves such things as Honor Code, political decisions, etc to the GA’s to make proper decisions. I think that most of the time they do. Other times, I think that they should rethink some of their decisions.

We, in my opinion, need to get back more to the basis. Love thy neighbor as thy self.
Love ye, one another. Judge not, lest ye be judged.

As we judge the LGBT community, they come back and judge us. It is not good for either of us. We need to get along.

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Sr_Burton,

I always like your posting and I feel like I always gain something from them. Thanks.
While I agree with most of it, I do take a little different attitude about being able to or not being able to make a change in a situation.

Never do I post for the intention of causing conflict, however, more often than not, at least with a couple posters, I do experience conflict and my beliefs are put into question. My intent is to help bring about positive change, not in doctrine, but in procedure. I believe that the only thing constant in life is change.

I want us to continue to evaluate our policy not only on an annual or monthly basis but on a daly basis. When we see ways to improve our policy, I want to improve it. Someone on this board once said, regarding football decisions last season that taking something that doesn’t work, and keep doing it over and over again with the same results, but expecting things to get better, just isn’t very bright. (I paraphrase)

When we attack people with different religions, different cultures, different value systems and
perceived needs, but don’t give them credit for having their own religion, their own culture, their own value system, or their own perceived needs, than we experience constant pain from those that would see us arrogant or hard to get along with people .

When we force our will, (California Prop 8) , on those that do not share our religion, do not share our LDS culture, do not share our value system and in doing so, keep them from achieving that which they want most with their own value system. (Marriage because WE do not believe they should have that privledge), then our procedures are causing both them and ourselves much pain. (For every action, there is an equal reaction)

No marriage for LGBT community because we don’t want them to have it. No P5 conference for BYU because they don’t want us to have it.

Until we learn to respect all people, Our policies need constant review until we do learn how to get along with all of Gods Creations and not just those of our own fold.

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Positive changes generally come about by positive actions or responses. Telling a person how evil they are rarely helps them make changes for the good in their lives and usually causes dissension and contention. It can have generational impact on lives throughout all of eternity. Self-righteousness is a sin in my book of things not to aspire to. In Mark a young man seeking to find the way to eternal life addresses Christ as “good master” and Christ corrects him by saying only God is good. Here the creator of the earth exhibits humbleness towards his Father-a good example for all of us. It is good to express your views and belief of gospel principles -just don’t be self-righteous or demeaning while doing so and if you are presented with antagonism and criticism don’t respond likewise. A good rule of thumb for this board.

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As a non-LDS fan comments like this are a breath of fresh air. It’s frustrating to see the closed mindedness involved with forcing a standard on your students more demanding even than the ones church members live by. What is the point? It looked really good for us getting into the Big 12 for awhile now but I don’t think it’s going to happen now, and that’s a shame. There are too many demanding that we not be accepted now because of the "rape culture " created by elevating the honor code over law enforcement issues. Just another side effect of the misnamed Soviet style “honor code” that places rules above the needs of people. So often BYU is its own worst enemy. Thanks for your views Ronald.

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So, 30,000 students should change how they relate to each other (heterosexually) for 600 to 1500 people? We have to demonized heterosexual affection for a few people? The same with wards of the Church around the world. We have to demonized righteous affection (heterosexual)? That is changing doctrine. That is calling evil good and good evil.
Seems to me it’s a lot better for gays to conform to the Lord’s ways. If not, just don’t show gay affection.
As far as the Pope, next year my grandson will be 12 and a deacon. His priesthood has more power and authority than the Pope, his cardinals, his bishops and all his priests combined.
The Lord said it plainly, love me and keep my commandments. That’s all of them. If you live your neighbor but commit adultery, does the love they neighbor cancel out the adultery? Nope. Neither the vilest of sins, homosexual acts.
The Church Brethren and BYU have bent far enough.

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Then the LGBT community should stop forcing their anti-Christ vile sins on 95% of the world. How far do they get to carry this farce?

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Why are the rules above the needs of the people? I send my children there I expect Church standards to be met. If getting into the Big 12 means lowering standards to meet the level of the rest of the sespool colleges, then no. We don’t need to lower our standards for football glory.

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Kevin,
From what I read he said MEMBERS of the church thinks they are infallible…Which is True… Members thinks that the GA’s do not make mistakes…

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Which “Standards” Scott?

Yours?

BYU’s?

LDS Church?

Because all three have different standards…

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My standards are in line with the Church and so is BYU. The Church handbook still has homosexual acts as vile sins in line with the doctrine from the Bible. Now, do you agree with the Church?

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That isn’t true. We do believe that they follow authority. And, that they know what the commandments are.
As far as reasons for commandments, like when BY received his to deny priesthood to blacks, those are not always understood. That leads to logic and reason attempts to figure it out. When BM said he was wrong or they all were wrong, that was just a statement saying it doesn’t matter whose reason was right. It didn’t matter anymore.
We call the logic and reasoning policy making based around commandments. This, policy can change. Commandments can change. Doctrine is a bit different. To accept gay eternal marriages would take a whole new plan of salvation because those marriages would find no joy with eternal increase. End of fairy tales.

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There is a lot of misunderstandings about the position of the Church on this issue. I am including a few excerpts FYI. You can read more detail at http://www.mormonsandgays.org/

Where the Church stands: The experience of same-sex attraction is a complex reality for
many people. The attraction itself is not a sin, but acting on it is. Even though individuals do not choose to have such attractions, they do choose how to respond to them. With love and understanding, the Church reaches out to all God’s children, including our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters.

Where love is there is hope also. Everyone experiences the desperation of temptation and the emptiness of sin. This is the common condition of humankind. Nevertheless, Latter-day Saints believe that the “good news” of Jesus Christ shows that these adversities are not final. They are part of the test of mortality that all people must undergo. God’s plan for our lives rests on the powerful notion of free will and spiritual self-determination. Christ’s grace will take care of the rest. With Him, each of us can walk the path, and chart the destiny of our own spiritual lives. God will work out all the confusion and contradiction. With our small window into God’s grand plan of happiness, let us forever lean on the side of hope, with faith that what seems to us a trial will actually turn out to be a blessing.

No one fully knows the root causes of same-sex attraction. Each experience is different. Latter-day Saints recognize the enormous complexity of this matter. We simply don’t have all the answers. Attraction to those of the same sex, however, should not be viewed as a disease or illness. We must not judge anyone for the feelings they experience. Members of the Church who have same-sex attractions, but don’t act on them, can continue to enjoy full fellowship in the church, which includes holding the priesthood, carrying out callings, and attending the temple. Unlike in times past, the Church does not necessarily advise those with same-sex attraction to marry those of the opposite sex. Same-sex attraction itself is not a sin, but yielding to it is. However, through repentance Jesus Christ will offer forgiveness.

We believe that with an eternal perspective, a person’s attraction to the same sex can be addressed and borne as a mortal test. It should not be viewed as a permanent condition. An eternal perspective beyond the immediacy of this life’s challenges offers hope. Though some people, including those resisting same-sex attraction, may not have the opportunity to marry a person of the opposite sex in this life, a just God will provide them with ample opportunity to do so in the next. We can all live life in the full context of who we are, which is much broader than sexual attraction.

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What can be clearer than that-thanks

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"Same-sex attraction itself is not a sin, but yielding to it is. "

This is the entire crux of my statements. Go back and read my posts. You will see this emphasized. This one statement also silences those who think gay marriage is going to be eternal. Nonsense!

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I think this whole debate shows us how complicated the issue has become. It is apparent the brethren pray about these issues constantly and are truly seeking the Lord’s will. They are being cautious about letting us know that “we simply don’t have all the answers.” So, let’s not lose our testimony if these policies and statements get tweaked. What we do know with a surety is that we need to be kind and respectful to those dealing with these issues and offer them hope through Christ for a pathway to all the joy and blessings of the gospel.

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They may be “in-line”, but that does not mean they are the same…

In the church I can wear a beard, I can even have long hair if I choose, even as a priesthood leader. If you are woman, who gets raped regardless of the situation, they would not be brought in a church court to be “kick out”…

All these things are at BYU currently under the HC rules…

so please don’t tell BYU HC is in line with the Church.

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Whose made it complicated? Homosexual behavior is a sin. Plain and simple. The reason the brethren come out and do what they can is to appease the government. As most conservatives recognize the liberal democrats government is trying eliminate religion from a right in the Constitution. Not because they have any confusion about homosexual behavior being a sin.