Tolutau cited for

Yes BYU goes beyond what the normal athletic programs provide in player support. It is something that needs to be done because their athletes are held to a higher standard than 98% of other colleges. They are young adults that make mistakes in an ego driven sport that has tremendous highs and lows. Coaches at BYU are under pressure not only to win, but to help preserve positive images for the church. I feel bad for the athletes and the coaches because it’s a difficult situation. I know Sitaki loves his players. He is the right man in the right spot. The others-well it’s football-most folks only see wins and losses.

As a clinical social worker, I have provided therapy to people with mental health problems and all kinds of substance problems. In my 35 years, working outpatient, day-treatment, residential and inpatient treatment, I would like to add my two cents to a couple of things. The first thing is that there is NO one shoe fits all strategy for people getting help. My father drank heavily in his late teens and twenties (even getting into several physical altercations with police) before marrying, deciding BY HIMSELF ONLY at 29 years that it was time to get on with his life and he just stopped drinking… Counseling / treatment should not be used as a punishment but as a means to provide structure and cognitive, emotional and behavioral insight for the person with substance problems. But counseling does not MAKE anyone do anything, it is simply a means for people to help themselves (it is a form of SELF support with specialized assistance). Some people do not help themselves through counseling, they do it through AA / other 12 step programs. Some do it to keep their marriage / family, some to keep a job / career, others to stay out of jail. Some do it through the support of friends or teammates, church or several supports at the same time. Some never use any support system and die, like my dad’s older brother who literally drank himself to death after the docs removed most of his stomach and told him when he drank again he would die and my uncle proved the docs correct.

There is a difference between consequences and punishment. Those in authority have to utilize reasoned consequences and work hard not to employ punishment because the punished feel worthless, hopeless and helpless and they already feel those things deeply. Obviously to the one getting consequences, they can still see that as punishing but that is on them if they won’t or can’t understand the difference. Consequences and support can be used at the same time to help people. The old saying, “You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink,” should be amended to add, "Yeah but at least lead him to water so he can see it, smell it and even taste it. Any and all of the supports I have mentioned (including counseling / treatment) are merely attempts to get the person to the water so that the likelihood of him or her drinking the water is increased.

Not all people who use substances are addicted. Some are experimenting, some enjoy the effects internally and socially, some use substances frequently but are actually able to control their use, some who use frequently may, on occasion, overindulge and may even have some related problems (i.e. a fist fight, a hurtful argument with their spouse, etc.). The concern is when we see patterns of: overuse, associated problems, evidence of tolerance, blackouts and many other symptoms. There is a difference between emotional / psychological DEPENDENCE and biological ADDICTION. People can be dependent upon marijuana and even physically addicted to pot.

It is not so much that people who use substances do NOT care about their family, friends, church, team, etc. it is that at that time they care more about the substance than themselves and / or those other people / things in their lives, for a whole host of reasons. If this happens, the user can feel temporarily lousy about themselves or with more of these outcomes feel very guilty, shameful, hopeless, helpless and unworthy (even when they are projecting bravado or anger outwardly).

Not trying to pontificate here just trying to add my experiences to what has been said for whatever it is worth or not worth.

You always say a lot. This time it’s all true. Counciling helps bring them to the water or potential desire to kick a habit or overcome a challenge.

Ummmmmm, isn’t every thing I say true, every time I post? :wink: :grinning:

Ummmm…no :sunglasses:
That would be me :slight_smile:

Roy and grasshopper:

I agree about alcoholism, and some traumatic experiences do require extensive counseling to sort out. Do you both agree, though, that many modern people look to counseling as a panacea, when it often/sometimes doesn’t do much?

Tolutau getting caught with pot doesn’t fit under any of this.

Rubicon, I certainly agree that too many people view counseling / treatment as a panacea for too many “ills” in our society. They and many clients want the treatment staff to FIX the person or the problem. Therapists do not fix people, the fixing is done by the client (if at all) with assistance from therapeutic staff who have skills to help clients help themselves. While therapy has helped many people it sometimes is not going to be utilized by clients to help themselves.

We do not know the circumstances or the history of Tolutau’s use of marijuana (or possibility of use of other substances) so we cannot make proper judgements, we can only rely on trained people to make evaluations and then the folks who run the FB program at BYU will have to make their decisions. So I will not make a judgement about how involved Tolutau is with marijuana. However, his missionary service, just recently coming off his mission, his being a young man and not a teenager, his being an important part of the FB team and using marijuana, to me, cannot be blamed on just a young guy making dumb young guy mistakes. Perhaps he no longer wants to play FB but for some reason cannot tell the coaches or other players directly and using is a passive way to get kicked off the team (just a WILD GUESS as an example of something else going on ~~ as I shrug my shoulders).

So, you think he’s homesick? Or maybe he thinks he knows he will be a draft pick and he doesn’t want to work on Sunday’s? Or, he just got caught up with the wrong crowd and got caught? Or, maybe his injuries hurt more than he can take and he’s using it for medical reasons?

We know he decided after his mission he would change his mind about Wisconsin and play for BYU. Maybe because he thought he wouldn’t be tempted to use drugs at BYU. Maybe his parents knew this too and pushed him to go to BYU. Parents and players do this all the time. I remembered going to a ward building in Oxnard, CA, to watch games and Ronnie Jenkins mother and grandmother would be there watching. They weren’t members but they really encouraged Ronnie to go to BYU to get away from the gang influence around here. But his girlfriend had other ideas…

Have no knowledge, just wild guesses.

Something happens to Scott and it becomes an “all the time” thing.

He lives a very sheltered life.