Rant: BYU's admission and scholarship announcements

Off-Topic
1

It’s been interesting. Our oldest is a high school senior, valedictorian, high test scores, with full-ride offers (meaning housing and fees in addition to full tuition) from state universities. We knew he would be accepted to BYU, but weren’t sure about what BYU would offer scholarship-wise. We kind of suspect that he would get, at most, half-tuition.

It was interesting watching the meltdowns over the weekend after BYU was, again this year, a day late after it’s promised announce day. Many students with perfect ACT/SAT scores were denied, and families were stunned and trying to make sense of it. I feel for them.

Our problem is that BYU announces so late (March 2), and BYU doesn’t even announce scholarship awards until late April. The drop-dead deadline for the state universities is May 1, and you have to have accepted long before then to nail down your housing. It is a real problem, because it’s almost like BYU is hoping that several will decline the BYU acceptance on their own. Students with great offers elsewhere almost have to take those offers, since there is so much uncertainty and it’s so late.

I guess it comes down to supply and demand. There are enough families willing to pay full tuition with no aid or scholarships to come to BYU that they don’t need to court families whose kids qualify for the aid and tuition. They can take a “take it or leave it” stance, and not miss a beat because there are so many other families and kids trying to get in who are willing to accept any terms.

I just feel a sense of loss, because my son is leaning heavily towards one of his full-ride offers, and we agree with him. It just feels like a loss because this is his shot to go to BYU, and BYU by the way it sets up and times things almost forces us into this position. It seems like it’s by design.

2

He can do just as well somewhere else.

BYU isn’t the end all place to go to school. Frankly, I would rather have my kids go elsewhere at this point. There is an arrogant, better than you attitude that is creeping into that place and it isn’t good.

Just my two cents.

3

For sure. He’s just making sure that he’s not supposed to be there, but he’s also confident that if he does his best, God will do the rest.

On paper, it’s no contest. Tuition, housing, meals, fees fully covered, vs. half tuition at BYU (admittedly, pretty cheap), but on the hook for very expensive housing and meals. Off-campus is way more expensive than when we went to BYU, too. I paid $85 a month to share an apartment with five other guys, but that same dump now is $300 per month per person. My son also needs to earn the rest of his mission money, so his earnings need to go into savings, not towards half-tuition, room, and board (and BYU’s is expensive!).

However, if he’s supposed to be there, then he’s supposed to be there. That isn’t where he’s leaning, though. It’s just that it is sad to decline your acceptance to BYU.

You’re right that the shine is kind of off the BYU apple for me in a lot of ways — and not just because our sports are in a doldrums right now.

4

BYU is a great school, but its not for everyone. One semester there taught me that. Most of my family went to either BYU or Utah, I went to Cal Poly SLO and ASU. Now my daughter is going to ASU and most of her cousins are going to BYU. I’m not a rebel, maybe a little, but I couldn’t take the atmosphere at the Y. But that’s me, I still root for the sports teams and I have no qualms with alumni (well most of them). Good Day.

5

My BYU Freshman daughter Cassie sounds somewhat similar to your son. She is there now and is loving BYU studying Chem Engineering. She got a Tuition only scholarship at BYU. We hoped for more as she got a perfect ACT score, had a weighted 4.3 something GPA, took and passed 16 AP classes in HS, and is strong in other areas. But no one really understands any college’s "Holistic"admission processes - even BYU’s.

Interestingly, Cassie didn’t get in to Stanford or Harvard. She always planned to go to BYU but applied to a few other top schools just to see. I guarantee you that all of Stanford’s and Harvard’s incoming Freshmen were not more academically qualified than Cassie. But it doesn’t matter. She’s an otherwise normal white girl from Oregon. Meaning she’s not a football player, an ethnic minority, from a state with little representation (like ND or AK), doesn’t have rich parents, etc.

In other words, we learned that it’s not about how qualified a student is to get a scholarship or to get into any top school. Sure, they need certain test scores and grades. But it’s mostly about diversity, fame, $$, etc. Ie, Obama’s or kids can go anywhere they want. This is our reality of our society today. I’m not complaining - it’s like that in the workplace, too. We just need to realize it’s not a level playing field anywhere nowadays.

6

My son has a 4.85 GPA, lots of AP classes (4s and 5s), and a 1440 SAT. We were going to apply to some elite universities to see what happened, but he got burned out with the applications (and, he has three AP classes and German 2 his last year, plus he’s been in a bunch of plays). I suspect that, like your daughter, he’s too white and from the wrong state. He said that he wouldn’t ever go to those schools, anyway.

I think that the essays and ecclesiastical endorsements are huge at BYU. I know many applicants who had perfect ACTs with padded resumes with leadership, clubs, and service, whom BYU rejected, and they’re crushed and stunned. I think BYU uses the essays to “separate the men from the boys,” in their eyes. Several top students write sterile, personality-less essays, and then you get solid-but-not-outstanding students who really radiate who they are in a good way on the essays. Similarly, there are different shades of endorsement bishops and stake presidents can give that color otherwise stellar applicants on paper.

We’re just really not happy that BYU announces admission and then scholarships so late. What is the point of that? It seems to us that the only explanation is that they are trying to get students (like my son) to self-select out because they have better offers that are time-sensitive before they even see their poker hand from BYU. It’s a way of gauging true “I would do anything to go here — even throw away a full-ride.”

It’s a little sad, because I am a Cougar fan, and I have fond memories of having gone to BYU.

7

Blah, blah, blah-blah, blah… I went to BYU as non-member after JC… I went because I loved the feeling I got visiting the school. There were rebel rousers there and occasionally I ran into them. But, I felt the spirit there. Trash talk it all some of you want. But the school is owned and run by the Lord’s Church.

8

remember Scott, just because it is owned by the church, does not make the decisions of the administrators of BYU correct. they are normal men and can make mistakes.

it is NOT. the Lord’s university, that distinction is held for the Temples.

neither poster was making deragotory comments, the were simply saying the admissions are tighter AND the timing of the acceptance letters is hard to deal with.

I would dare you could not get into BYU now., with the education you came with the first time.

9

I struggled and had to work hard after attending JC and transferring into BYU. I am pretty sure I could not get in there right now with the same resume’ I did over 30 years ago. Having said that, I seriously wonder what it takes to get accepted.

After reading Larimer’s post about his daughter and Rubicon’s post about his son, I have no idea what they are looking for anymore. My son was accepted 5 years ago before he left on a mission and he went there for 3 years before he left on that mission. He started with 1/2 tuition and then got full tuition after that. He still had to buy books and pay for housing and stuff.

I don’t care if grasshopper thinks I am “trashing” the school when I say what I did. I don’t understand why it is so bad to try and point things out in an effort to make them better or change them for the good. It is the same thing I do when I talk about the basketball team. I just don’t accept blind allegiance.

Maybe if more people had protested or said something about the rise of Nazi germany, we wouldn’t have had the holocaust… and there are other examples.

10

You are comparing BYU with Nazi Germany? I suppose the Prophet is the Feurer and the school President is the head of the SS? LOL!!!

I went and paid full tuition. I transferred as a junior and of course was Jewish. I bet that makes yavolt anti-semites blood boil.

Supply and demand is key. I think the department you are going to major in makes things different on whether or not you will get in and how many others are trying to get in too. How many other 4.3 GPA kids are there applying. You don’t know and neither does anyone else. The school hasn’t expanded much in 40 years but the Church population has. Although I would guess the inactivity ratios are higher now.
I’m sure they could change some things if they need to or if they could. We don’t know any of that.

11

I’ve not heard the Temple is a university. It certainly is a place of higher learning. The tuition has no scholarship program and is paid 100% by the attendees. There are standards and if they are broken then expulsion is immediate and one must reapply. One must reapply bi-annually anyways. But, there is no graduation on earth and no job to be had to raise a family and exist in this world. So, while there are some things in common with colleges, the purpose is entirely different even though BYU students are to graduate and go out to serve.

BYU is owned and operated by the Church. The Brethren choose the school presidents. They are involved with decisions that impact the school as it relates to the Church and Gospel. While attending another university is completely approved of by The Brethren, those universities have nonconnection to the Lord other than the good people, if any, who run them. And most of them are tied and controlled by the Federal and State Governments.
I think there is a difference between the Church owned schools and the rest of the world. While there is a diversity of thought allowed, there isn’t everything the world accepts allowed. You don’t think the Lord cares in some ways about BYU?

12

Jim,
You post things to try improve what you perceive as an issue on any subject, That is what a “reasonable” person would do… Grasshopper is not “reasonable” when it comes to BYU.

I know from friends of mine (all my kids are grown and past college age), that the academic standards has been raised quite a bit from when you went. It is no longer just getting great ACT scores or a perfect GPA in High School (according to my friends). I think this is a way for the church way of keeping it numbers to a manageable amount for the school to handle. That is an assumption on my part, but it seems logical.

As for your Nazi comment, Grasshopper thinks you are comparing Nazi to BYU… Again an unreasonable assumption on his part. What you are comparing with your comment is that if people do not voice their objection or concerns, then things could become worse.

Take for example the way BYU use to handle Rape cases, Someone brought to attention that the HC went after the victim as well as the perpetrator. BYU looked into the issue and realize a mistake was made, then went on to make adjustment in the HC to avoid that mistake again. That is what reasonable people do to improve something to make it even better.

13

Because I work in the Temple , I was able to attend a Temple Devotional, where a General Authority said that the Lord’s University is the Temple. He said that because that is where we learn what we need to do to return to our Father in Heaven.

So now, many Temple workers use that comment.

As for your comparing an Earthly University to the Temple… Well all I can say is hogwash. If that is what you think about the Temple Ordinances, then I think you need to go more often.

The only time that the Brethren are Apostles are when they are on the Lord’s errand. Running BYU does not qualify. I know you have issues with logical and reasons. Just like you can not separate the Gospel of Jesus Christ and Church. They are two distinct different entities… One is perfect, the is ran by imperfect men.

If you don’t believe me? Go read Elder Uchtdorf talks.

14

You can’t understand the GA was using a concept and that the Temple isn’t a University like BYU? You take things a bit too literally sometimes.

Everything under the Church is under the direction of the Brethren. And, an apostle is always 24-7 working for the Lord and representing the Lord. Actually, same with you too when you are calling balls and strikes. You are a Melchizedek Priesthood holder 24-7 representing the Lord 24-7. No time off brother :slight_smile:

15

Rubicon nor I was trashing BYU nor the church. Just wondering about scholarship criteria. Nothing to see here. As Floyd said, it is run by normal people that make mistakes. Unlike Grasshopper, who knows all and sees all and walks on Diet Coke.

16

You telling me I take things too literal? LOL - Pot calling kettle here…

Second, What is a University purpose?

Universities are mandated to make or to help to make human beings in the fullest sense of those words — not just trained workers or knowledgeable citizens, but responsible members of human culture.

What is the purpose of the Temple? Not only to teach you the correct ordinances of the gospel, but to help those that enter the Temple, what it truly means to be a follower of Christ by the interactions we have with others, so in essence it help make us responsible members of human society.

As for this statement “Everything under the Church is under the direction of the Brethren. And, an apostle is always 24-7 working for the Lord and representing the Lord.”

Yes, the brethren hold the office of Apostle 24/7, that does not however mean every decision they make or anything they do is perfect. they are Men, therefore they are not perfect.

Direct Quote from Elder Uchtdorf:
"to be perfectly frank, there have been times when members or leaders in the Church have simply made mistakes. There may have been things said or done that were not in harmony with our values, principles, or doctrine.

I suppose the Church would be perfect only if it were run by perfect beings. God is perfect, and His doctrine is pure. But He works through us—His imperfect children—and imperfect people make mistakes."

So Scott, by these words of an apostle, not every decision a member of the BOT or BYU Administration is the right one, because they are human and they do and will make mistakes in their decisions.

17

Exactly. Thanks for your understanding and ability to reason and think logically. We can only try to do the same with grasshopper. I would love to see him get there at some point but after many years of trying I don’t hold out much hope.

18

I haven’t had a coke since 1977 before I joined the Church. I never drank much of it before anyways. I liked Dr. Pepper, orange, seven up, root beer and of course cream soda :sunglasses:

19

BYU is still the Lord’s University :innocent:

20

Nope! I was commenting on the outrageous comparison you were making about the importance of what goes on with BYU and what went on in Nazi Germany. You always get on me for making analogies so here’s one back at ya :stuck_out_tongue: