Apostles and Prophets are special witnesses. That, you are not. Do you understand that our present day apostles and Prophets are with the same authority and stature as those The Lord called in his days? You act as if they are not…
What about his pastors and evangelists?
As an example, John Dehlin use to be one of them. His words do not trump the words of the Prophets. His words lead people astray with him. President Monson’s words lead is to the Savior and never from the Savior. As with Peter, Joseph Smith, President Monson is the oracle by which the Rock of Revelation for the entire Church and world rests upon.
We have no right or authority to pick and choose which commandments need to be followed in order to claim to be a follower of The Lord. And, to what extent that level of testimony we have isn’t our decision if we have been most valiant or not. Bishops and Gospel Doctrine teachers do not decide what is sin and what the commandments are. As others have recently said, we fear your direction and what has entered into your heart? Can you fully be valiant in your testimony and truly be following only The Lord by not keeping His commandments? I say no. Can you be following only The Lord if you follow man’s political doctrines and ignore the Rock of Revelation that comes through the Lords special witnesses? I say no.
A bishop, elders quorum president, 70 or anyone else has authority for which they serve over. But, they do not trump the direction of The Lord through the Prophet and the Apostles. They may have their opinions as you may have. But, it cannot become doctrine. The Lord have these disciples to spread the truth given to them through the Prophet and Rock of Revelation. Until The Lord states through top to bottom revelation that homosexual acts are no longer sin, they remain sin for those participating and supporting the sin. And, I see no way this will change. It’s contrary and opposes the Plan of our Heavenly Father. So does murder, abortion, and adultery. Also, having a beer damns the valiance of ones testimony and negates Temple work and spiritual growth.
I write this with pure intent to teach and not preach.
Sodom and Gomorra was destroyed for the behavior unbecoming and unacceptable unto the Lord.
Was this only homosexuals or was it homosexuals, hedro sexual’s, and bi sexual also?
If indeed, it was all manners of sexual promiscuity, then why do we only single out the homosexuals?
How many times does the Bible say, “Throw shall not kill”?
Why then, do we praise our young children, husbands, wive, brothers and sisters and friend and call them true patriots when they go off to war to fight and kill in places like Afghanistan, Iraq, and other oil rich nations?
Why, in the OT, was Moses ordered to kill ever man, woman and child, in not one city, but in two cities, that stood in the path of those that Moses led out of Egypt to Jerusalem?
Why is it better for one man to parish, than to have a whole nation dwindle in disbelief?
If we believe that the Bible is the word of God in so far that is is translated correctly, could it be that a certain
2 referrals of homosexuals may have been misinterpreted, like thou shall not kill? Could their be conditions attached?
Do we believe that God created all of us? Do we believe that a certain of all children are born homosexuals, that did not just become that way do to environment? If so, do we believe that God does not love these children which he created?
I do not know the answers to any of these questions and I do not suggest that anyone that does have an answer is right or wrong with the answer they do have,
My only suggestion is that we need to think very clearly before we pass judgement and perhaps, just perhaps, we should leave the judgement to God.
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Grasshopper,
The Indian law, states all religions and not just Christian Religions. If Muslims are aloud 4 wives, dose that mean that polygamy is legal in Indiana?
Does that mean the Fundamentalist LDS living in Indian is legally able to have polygamy?
Does this mean, that if enough Muslims move to Indian, they could control the way people live, think and believe?
Is this law, that some believe to be bigotry, actually back firing on them?
I think the law is dangerous.
We all need to be careful when we try to get around one issue legally, at the expense of a group of people. It is to easy to find a way to have that law backfire on you.
Devmo,
I think that it is a mistake to laugh at this attachment which you posted. I think that it is a mistake not to take it as a serious threat. That is just my opinion. What starts as grass roots, often ends up a full think lawn.
Grasshopper,
I think that your comment about the 150 Christians killed in Kenya vs the loaf of bread in Indiana is a good and valid comparison.
I think that we need to question many of the things that we do or do not do.
In other words, I think that we all need to think more using our own brains and sense of what is right and what is wrong, and those things that we can not come up with a clear and true decision of, we should leave for God to judge.
grasshopper,
I hate the terms liberals and conservatives. I hate that middle isle that sits all the conservatives on the right side of the isle and all the liberals on the left side of the isle. This is very divisive and part of the reason why we can’t get things done in congress.
To me, there are far too many things in life that are divisive. I think that live would be much better and much more Christ like, if we looked more for the things that bring us together as a people than to look for things that separate us or set us apart from each other.
Christ walked among the leapers. He ate with the tax collectors. He kept as a life companion, a prostitute, if you believe it. Do we pick and choose what we want to believe or do we believe everything or do we believe nothing.
I think we spend too much time finding ways not to accept people and not enough time trying to find ways to accept people. I think we find to many ways to hate progressives and not enough time trying to figure out what they want and why they want it. I think that the progressives spend too much time trying to demonize the conservatives for wanting to keep more of what they earn without wanting to share with those that can not survive without tax support.
I think that the government needs an overhaul where the party is no longer important and should not exist at all, (George Washington), and in it place, we should have a congress made us to decide how to run the country for the good of all citizens, and not just what is good for progressives and not what is just good for conservatives, but instead, what is good for all citizens.
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KC,
I think that I agree with what I think that you are saying.
It seems like someone always needs to find something or someone to look down on, or not accept as a full member in good standing,
Once that’those victims have run it’s course and they are no longer the target, we seem to find a new target.
The target today seems to be the homosexuals. Before 1978 it was a different group. Unless things changes drastically, their will be a new target,
My question is this: Why does there always need to be a target, Why can’t we just learn to all be brothers and sisters as equal children of God.
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So, you to deny latter day Prophets too? This is suggested in your response. According to latter day prophets and apostles, homosexual acts are a sin against God and there is not ever a good reason for it. I’ve never heard any where in any of the scriptures old and new that suggest there is a good reason for sexual sin. Do you?
As far as what the commandment thou shalt not kill, you might want to study what God meant. To me, it’s simple. When you take upon yourself to take life, of whom only God can decide that, you have broken the commandment. For it has no purpose for the plan of salvation, the plan of God.
As far as being a soldier, the prophets have answered this question as it relates also to Heavenly Father’s plan.
Trying to justify sin through confusion is Satan’s method of throwing mist in our eyes leading us away from the tree of life. I’m greatful for our Prophet to clear up confusion and not allow responses like yours to confuse whether homosexual acts are sin. Sodom and Gammorrah wasn’t just over homosexual sin. But it was rampant and what the evil men wanted to do with the angels.
Elder Hales remark that knowing the plan of salvation leads us to understanding all of the commandments and their purpose. Sexual sins attack that very plan. If homosexual acts are not sin, then gay marriage would be eternal. The Lord has been clear through latter day prophets gay marriage is not eternal. Only heterosexual marriage is eternal. There is no possible eternal increase of joy in sin. Why is there any question with this? The OT and NT scripture stating this sin is sin of the gravest of nature have not been mis-translated scripture. Get over it. I think you fully understand the plan of salvation. This shouldn’t be that hard to understand.
Perhaps homosexuals have brought this on themselves by forcing an issue that seeks to destroy Heavenly Father’s plan. A plan to silence prophets and apostles from teaching and preaching information that is required for eternal life in the Celestial Kingdom.
I thought it was pretty funny because I have very conservative family who always say that there is no problem that the government can’t make worse. A new law creates a new problem.
Now living in Colorado, I know people who would probably observe this religion and be very devout followers. Weed is the only thing that Libertarians and Liberals have ever agreed on here. That is besides the holy church of the Broncos. There are churches here which show Broncos games to bring people in the doors.
We are commanded to teach one another the doctrines of the Gospel which includes the commandments. Then, when anyone including the apostles and the prophet teach about a commandment that isn’t politically correct, we are branded as insensitive, lack compassion and are hateful bigots.
Dev Mo
We have at least one thing in common. You come from a very conservative family and I come from a very Liberal family in comparison to most Republican and/or Libertarian families that live in Utah.
I am an individual person, separate from the politics of most. My conservative friends think that I am the most Liberal person they know, while my Liberal friends think that I am the most conservative person that they can possible be friends with.
The fact is, I take one issue at at time, and I fight for or against the issue and not for the party. I am against all political parties, as was George Washington when he said to avoid them at all cost or we will lose the democracy that we have now and replace it with something not at all like the liberty that we now enjoy. I paraphrase because I do not remember the exact words.
I think the Indiana law is a bad law and I fear the Utah is trying to pass a similar law. I am not against Indiana, where my grandfather was born and died and I am not against the Utah where all of my children live in and around Provo. I am against religious interference in politics. I see merit in the separation of Church and State, as I also see some of the problems with it.
I appreciate with what the Pope in Vatican City said last year, which brought himself much ridicule from his fellow clergymen in Rome.
He said, and I paraphrase, only because I do not remember the exact words, that “We as Catholics must change our ways of doing things. "We must stop dwelling on Abortions, vs the women’s right to Choose.”
“We must stop dwelling on the Gay/Lesbian Issues” "We must stop dwelling on the dogmas of the Church”
"Instead we must spend our time and energy doing the more important things in life, like taking care of the poor, and those that are not capable of taking care of themselves, and Loving all of our brothers and sisters, as we love ourselves”
He went on to say that far too much money is spent on the clergy at Vatican City and that most of that waste should be spent on the poor.
To me, this makes a lot of sense.
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RU: We have at least one thing in common. You come from a very conservative family and I come from a very Liberal family in comparison to most Republican and/or Libertarian families that live in Utah.
SG: I think all families have black sheep in them 
RU: I am an individual person, separate from the politics of most. My conservative friends think that I am the most Liberal person they know, while my Liberal friends think that I am the most conservative person that they can possible be friends with.
SG: There are intersections of conservative and libertarian in politics. So, conservatives may think libertarian is liberalism. Well, the Democrats have flip flopped on several issues making it confusing. And, there are many Republicans now that flip on issues too based on their need to get votes.
RU: The fact is, I take one issue at at time, and I fight for or against the issue and not for the party. I am against all political parties, as was George Washington when he said to avoid them at all cost or we will lose the democracy that we have now and replace it with something not at all like the liberty that we now enjoy. I paraphrase because I do not remember the exact words.
SG: I think we all do. It’s just that my answers seem to fall on the conservative side when logically reasoning out issues. I really am not sure how you avoid political parties. That’s like trying to avoid having a “church” of like-minded persons. They tend to flock together based on beliefs and organize. The laws of countries tend to force organizations to form based on tax codes and other reasons. Since the Lord believes in organizing, then having parties isn’t all that bad.
RU: I think the Indiana law is a bad law and I fear the Utah is trying to pass a similar law. I am not against Indiana, where my grandfather was born and died and I am not against the Utah where all of my children live in and around Provo. I am against religious interference in politics. I see merit in the separation of Church and State, as I also see some of the problems with it.
SG: Why is the law bad? It’s not establishing the opportunity for owner’s of businesses to exclude gays in their place of business. What it is doing is protecting a person’s right to not attend in support of gay marriages with their business if that goes against a person’s religious beliefs. What’s wrong with that? The Pizza restaurant in question doesn’t discriminate of people come to the restaurant to eat. But, that’s a far cry from being forced to cater a gay wedding in support of that sinful act. Yes? No?
The Church use to own 6 Flags. Here in California, they were forced to allow for a homosexual night. Like they do for other organizations. However, 6 Flags did not force their workers to show up and most did not show up. It was a disaster! Soon afterwards, the Church sold 6 Flags. The Church, nor 6 Flags, was against gays coming to the park as heterosexuals do. But, to cater special events is to many a show of support for sinful behavior. Thus, I agree with the Law. And, the law is nothing different than the Federal Law Clinton signed in to law in 1993.
Grasshopper,
I do enjoy reading your post. They are intelligently written and well organized. While it is hard to agree with all that you say, it is equally hard to disagree with most of what you say. I do respect what you have to say, even in the areas that i do not completely agree with.
I believe that it is so hard with a few hundred million people to try to do the right thing for everyone in our country. Not knowing for sure, what is the best solution or the worst solution for many things, I do believe that no solution may be better than a bad or a wrong solution, when we try to fix the problems with new laws.
Regarding the Indiana Law, and what I suspect will soon be a similar law in Utah, I would like to tell you what I would like to see happen.
On the Church side, I would like for the leadership to have the right to preach not against homosexuality, but for the blessings derived from a heterosexual union and marriage.
Let each person exercise their own free agency to choose what we believe to be right from wrong, which they, the gay, may not agree with, as being right or wrong, but judge not, lest we be judged and leave the judgement to God.
I would like to see us concentrate more on living the life style that we believe to be good and right for us, which we believe will help us achievement our rightful place in the kingdom of God by obeying what we believe to be God’s commandments.
I would like to see us allow those not of our faith, but with a strong value system of their own, which we may not understand, to seek their own path to eternal life in their own degree of glory which they, in their own way, have worked for. Let the judgment come from God and not from us.
I go back decades to the idea of “live and let live” Do what we believe to be right and let those not of our fold do what they believe to be right. I don’t think that we should force our value system on anyone. The rules are laid out for all of us to accept or reject. We should be responsible for what we do or do not do, but we should not pass laws that keeps others from having an opportunity to choose for themselves.
It took over 200 years to stop segregation between the blacks and the whites, and to get rid of the Jim Crow Laws
I hope that we do not have to do the same thing between the gays and the straights, making laws that we don’t have to serve them if it is against our religious beliefs. This sounds like a new strand of jim crow laws.
I hope that we do not have to force the gays to have their own gay ministers in order to get married.
I hope that we do not have to have a new law for Gays and Lesbians that guarantees equal job opportunity or better and equal housing opportunity by percentage count just because of other laws that give church members the right to not hire or not allow in your neighbor or not accept them as equal citizens in the land that guarantees freedom for all with certain unalienable rights, among which are the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit to happiness.
grasshopper “Get over it” This doesn’t sound like your normal intelligent thinking.
I was brought up believing in the 40’s and 50’s that through Jesus, we were all given our free agency to choose right from wrong and be awarded accordingly to our choices, in the hereafter, by our father in heaven.
And all the glory would go to God our father for this plan.
It was Satins plan to take away our free agency and make everyone be perfect and all the Glory would go to Satin.
I was brought up believing that it was Jesus plan of free agency to choose that was chosen by God the father.
Why are we now trying to stop that free agency?
Dear grasshopper,
You will win every argument, when you say you are on the side of our modern day profits, as you speak the truth about what they tell us.
Our difference of opinion is not weather something is or is not a sin. Our difference of opinion comes from us
believing that we have the right, or perhaps the responsibility, to take away the free agency of others and force them, through law, to believe as we do, right or wrong, or suffer the consequences, because of that law.
I grew up in an era, 1935-55 when the Church was proud to say that they were non political. We had modern day profits at that time also. Sometimes the thinking changes. It does not have to be a dream, or a vision, it could just be a knowledge that the time has come for a change. ( 1978). The thinking from 1832 to 1978 came to a change. Perhaps the thinking of this new issue, the Gays and Lesbians, could take on more consideration also. I would love to hear preaching about love, helping those in need, inclusiveness of all citizens and less about those that we do not approve of for any reason. Those things that they do that we do not approve of is their issues that is up to them to deal with. We have plenty of issues of our own that we need to deal with.
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