How bad is BYU football?

Floyd Edwards,

Reading your post seems like I am reading my own preparation on the subject to post. You have 100% insight of what is real among those that are and those that are not in the LGBT community within the Church.

As a teacher, our school psychologist was gay. The National Teacher of the year, just before I retired, was a Lesbian from my school. Accidentally, with out realizing it, I moved into a LGBT community, “Silver Lake” in Southern California, where I lived and owned and stayed for a year before and moving to Canyon Lake, where I could have my pontoon party boat, my ski boat, my sail boat, and my canoe. all at my own home, on my own dock with my own hydraulic lifts. Most of my neighbors were
lawyers, two of which were for Paramount Studios, and doctors from the best hospitals including Children’s hospital. There was a movie and stage actor. I CAN NOT USE NAMES HERE.

Almost everyone living here were extremely professional people. I could not have afforded to live her on my teacher pay if I did not have other companies, that teacher pay supplemented.

I was the token straight that was invited to every neighborhood party. I soon forgot that I was the only straight and that all other were LFBT. They never made a big issue of it. I know that I could never change them, and nobody ever tried to change me. In the eyes of the community, we were all of the human race. We were all God’s children. We were all God’s creation and none of us was willing to challenge or critise t

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Rubicon,

“The conflict, and the friction, comes when some think that teaching the commandments and standards needs is de facto demeaning to LGBT people. And, there are Mormons who (want living a gay lifestyle to be “de-criminalized”) in the Church”

Rubicon, I can’t speak for others, but for me, I would like us to obey the commandment to “Judge not, lest ye be judged, and leave all judging to God” I like the expample of Jesus Christ who was inclusive to all as he sat for dinner with the tax collectors, walked among the lephors, had as a life companion, the prostitute, and said to other sinners, “Go and sin no more.”

Jesus, in my opinion, spent far more time in trying to find the good in people than the bad. He tried much harder than we do to be all inclusive. Even said, render onto Cezar that which is Cezar’s and render onto the Lord, that which is his.

Jesus never tried to de criminalize prostitution, but he said, let he without sin, cast the first stone.

I may say onto you, let he that has never born false withness, always honored his father and mother, never coveted, and always obeyed all of the 10 commandments, be the first to find fault with those that are different from themselves.

And yes, We do believe in the Bible as far as it is translated correctlty, and possibly MM was not a prostitute but actually a classy lady from a well to do family, and maybe there are conflicting opinions that make these scruptures not important, and maybe some scriptures of unity came from the old testiment that was replaced by the new testement etc. Ya, I get it. If it is not convient in our own personal thinking, it probably isn’t true…/// Righ???

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If a coach does not get his players to progress during the seasons Scott, and they get fired for not producing… why is that Scapegoating?

If someone is not producing at any job, they get dumped Scott…

Whose not producing or getting better? Seems like the players are either peaking, injured or dealing with HC issues or NCAA violations. The QB position has seen 4 QBs this year. The tight ends were suppose to be 4 deep so we could have two or three in the game at the same time. 3 of the 4 have been injured all year. So the offense Detmer’s established over the off-season wasn’t able to be used. Then, the same things happened with the running backs. I don’t see the coaches as the problem. The health of the players is a gigantic problem.

How about Mangun? how many games did he start… he got worse as the season wore on…

Seems like you are making excuses… EVERY TEAM has injuries, coaches adapt… Detmer did not…

How about Magnum. He had a lousy game against Portland and it went continued. He didn’t get worse. He just never got better. When he got injured, Hoge came in and played well until he got injured. Koy got a shot and that was embarrassing. Critchlow got a shot and looked good for one game and then everything went wrong. No, except for the really big schools, they don’t have someone who can step in and do okay.
One thing about Mangum, when the 3 tightends went down with injuries, the offense changed from what they had been working on. Tolatau wasn’t ready at the beginning of the season and neither was Squally because of injuries. Hall and Dye got injured and so what do we have? A walk on QB and no tight ends and running backs. Not the coaches faults.

“BYU OC Ty Detmer acknowledged today that his offense hasn’t performed well all season, and he’s to blame (along with injuries, youth, inexperience)”

I know you will twist this quote from Jay Drew into something that fits your scenario but it seems pretty clear that Detmer is accepting responsibility for being part of the problem… and he is a coach. Yes, there are other things, but coaching is a big part of the problem.

I think they can get better but who knows when?

That’s just a leader being a leader. The fact is, he couldn’t run the offense he set up in the fall because of injuries to the tight ends and RBs.
Next year will be a big year!

The mark of a good coach is to adapt their schemes to fit he personnel and we haven’t seen that from Ty. The coaches are to blame as much as the players! I think Critch is going to be good. The DC is terrible and Ty has been bad for the whole year. I would give him one more yr though because he has limited experience at the D1 level. DC has to go. The players are by and large Broncos players so the new staff better hit he recruiting trail but they have made it very hard on themselves with this years disaster!

Flapping jaws does nothing. Let me try a bit slower… the offense they were going to run disappeared when 3 of the 4 tight ends went down with injuries. Then, we never had the running backs as they were injured. Then, the QB. No one could have done anything different.

This pretty much sums up why BYU football has sucked the past few years…

They actually talked to people who were in the trenches Scott… So no more of your excuses…

Oh yawn! Money is the issue and right now being independent brings in more money. So, it’s been successful. We’ve gone to bowl games and had winning years except for this year. One year doesn’t outway the successes.

Not if ESPN continues to dump personality and contracts… which is what they are doing right now…

I find it interesting you dispute what people like Tuckett and others had to say, these guys BUILT the legacy of the BYU Football Program…

Have to be able to afford the legacy’s today. Different era. We will be back to a winning season next year. Don’t sweat it so much :sweat:

Floyd,

99% of the time I agree with you, and I always enjoy reading your post, even if 1% of the time, we are not 100% in agreement.

When talking about coach replacement, I want you to just take a minute to think this through.
Tye Detmer became a convert while playing football for us. He brought our school fame that nothing else has in a postive manner, save perhaps the NC. He let our school have a Heisman trophy winner on it’s records. He brought all of his off spring into the Church. He sacrificed much for us.
Do we really want to not give him time to work things out? who can we get now to replace him that would be better.

He had a dream. It was a pro style dream. It took a season for him to figure out that it wasn’t working. with the 0.1.2.3 star requits that we have. I think that now, he has that figured out. I am expecting that next season may not be great, but at least it will be bowl elgible, for what ever value that is on our current level of $750,000 to 1 1/2 Million dollar bowls at a nothing place during a nothing time.

We need to figure out how to get better recruits and keep the coaches we have until we make changes where AS WE can go after the best coaches in the nation and be willing to pay what they are worth and what they would demand in order to come to us and make us rich in our program and in our University pockets.

I agree with who would Floyd get to replace Ty? Another coach with no D1 coaching experience?

We don’t have 0,1 and 2 star players. Where do you get that? We have 3’s and a few 4s and an ocational 5. I think the 4 tight ends are going to develop into 4 and 5 stars. All but one were injured early in the year and the 2 and 3 tight end offense Ty could not use. We will next year.

Ron mentioned bringing in a consultant to help him and I’m of the opinion that we need co offensive coordinators, because I don’t want Ty gaming the plays. And let’s please put him up in the booth… I think Ty is smart but he’s missing something. It’s hard to admit your beautiful plan for the season or the game isn’t working especially when it’s players making mental errors. Either way, he needs to get help, go back to the drawing board and ask what system can BYU consistently run every year to give us a shot against better teams.

2, 3 or even 4 TE passing sets… The NFL is trending to heavy TE sets as a way to challenge defensive personnel in the current philosophy most coaches use. BYU is in a unique position that we can recruit those guys, at least better than WR.

The real question I’m struggling with system wise is what type of spread QBs should we target? Running qb or passing qb? Do we spread to run out spread to pass

Other questions: pace, lineman type

Well, glad you aren’t the head coach. Co-offensive coordinators? Have you ever seen that before? No. Silly and doesn’t work well in most cases in the business word to have co-CEO’s.

If you have been listening to the coach shows as well as Sports Nation, you would know the offense was suppose to feature 2 and 3 tight end plays. Ferguson wasn’t even one of those considered this year. But because if injuries, that couldn’t be used. That means not only some complex plays featuring TE could not be used. But specific running plays had to be scrapped as well. And additional pass blocking was limited too. We were playing at times in skilled positions 3rd and 4th stringers.
Therefore, Ty doesn’t need a co-anything. What he needs is healthy players and ones that aren’t going to get hurt so much.

Off the top of my head, I’ve seen TCU execute it to perfection by using complimentary talents in Sunny Dykes, Doug Meachum and later Curtis Luper. They divided up QBs and RBs, one of them called the plays and the other focused on execution. Gary patterson made the comment that it generated new ideas and forced them to actually come up with something better instead of what they felt comfortable with. Plus, if one leaves you maintain continuity. Just think of it like another division of responsibility like o and d coordinators.

Ty doesn’t control injuries, but he is responsible for how he responds to them. He did not show the ability to adapt. He looks like a system coach to me and that’s a red flag. His play calling and game planning are under his control and they were abysmal. Even last year when he had Jamal and Taysom he made bizarre decisions. I’ve rewatched those games and it is so frustrating to watch them one after another. He had his moments, but it was typically against 3-9 teams or teams with horrible defensive principles and personnel.

I do follow the Coaches shows, the plays referenced are more traditional pro-style plays. Those are actually pretty common. I’m more referencing 3-4 TE sets split wide or used in odd ways to ‘break’ cover 2 principles especially when defenses employ 4-2-5 or 3-3-5 personnel.

Twins TE Stack, Trips Bubble screen, Trips Sluggo Bubble, Quad flood, Quad bubble Double pass and so on. Placing them out wide in bunches breaks defensive principles because they have to make personnel changes eventually. Corners can’t defend the TE effectively in coverage and they get smashed on screen blocks. But if you bring over safeties or even line backers, you’re contorting the shell and opening lanes.

Bottom line. Play the hand you’re dealt and from what I can see, He did that poorly and that’s what I’m judging him on.

All those plays you speak of required 3 or 4 tight ends. That’s what we started with and quickly lost 3 of them to injuries. We lost runningbacks and ended up Saturday playing a 5th stringer. The only consistency was the OL. I don’t think anyone could have salvaged the season. I think 4-9 was pretty good for the injuries. We just didn’t have the horses for the red zone.

What will people say when it happens again next year? Detmer should have had one more year with a healthier offense to know.