I’d bet very, very few D1 coordinators–especially those with plenty of money and a stable life–would take a demotion to remain on staff as a position coach. Ty can probably make as much money in a couple weeks hosting hunts on his ranch than he would in an entire season as the QB coach at BYU, and without all the grief.
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My grandpa sold the hunting rights on his property to a California businessman, who brought greenhorn hunting rookies for guaranteed trophies. He got over $100,000 a year, just for letting him bring rookie hunting parties.
The reason success was guaranteed was the deer and elk there up in the mountains will sit and watch you drive by in your truck. It’s really remote, and they aren’t used to human contact.
Ty Detmer isn’t hurting for money. I feel bad for him because it didn’t work out, and personally wanted him to have another year. I think two years is premature, but the spectacular futility of our offense this year probably doomed him.
I’m not faulting Ty for the hand he was dealt, only how he played that hand. He didn’t need to be good on offense this year, I wouldn’t blame him for being mediocre given the injuries. I blame him for how he used what he had in front of him. He showed similar problems last year. At the end of last year I assumed it was growing pains. But then portland state made me realize Ty was struggling still.
Even if he fails, as long as I can look at his strategy and say, “well it was the right strategy because it gave us the best chance to win” then OK. But I can’t say that.
The Utes changing OC every year is their own trend, not ours, and it’s anecdotal and unapplicable until we go through multiple Coordinators. Ty’s two years were sunk cost and I don’t want to throw good money after bad. Yes I’d love to maintain him as QB coach. I’d say Ty gets another year if he wasn’t so historically bad.
But if you’re Kalani and you don’t fire Ty, you’re getting fired next year specifically because he didn’t take action to correct the offense. I’d like to hope that he spoke with Ty in the season about how to change it but I don’t know anything about that first hand.
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How has he corrected the offense? Because, it will take another 2 years for the new OC to go through growing pains and changes. Especially if a different style of offense is implemented. The players now have to learn a new system? 2 more years of no bowl games is what I see. And then a new head coach and a new OC again. What’s happening at Utah is becoming a trend at BYU now and many other places. People demand instant gratification because that’s now part of society as a whole. And I see you and others falling into that trap.
I contest your point that I demand instant gratification. I’ve said multiple times I don’t care about wins necessarily. I want competence. Show me that you know how to make the right calls, game plans, and so on even if that does not translate to a win. Especially show me that you’re not just a system coach.
Also, I didn’t say he corrected the offense, I said he took steps to correct it. If I see improvements in play calling and schematics next year then I’ll say he’s on the right track. Otherwise, he’s probably gone.
I actually have a lot more hope in the offense now, depending on who they hire. Simplifying and adapting the system to fit the players will be a much faster change than what Ty attempted. And If Kalani can get 6 wins, and show competence, he’s still on the hot seat but he gets another year. If he gets 7 or more…, or frankly if he beats Utah, then he’s safe for now.
As far the trend comparison to Utah, I would say Bronco had that problem but it’s unfair to extend that to Kalani. If Kalani continues the trend, I’ll accept the comparison. The offense was just so horrible there was no getting around it.
Let me make this clear. I think Ty is smart and a good guy, but he was overwhelmed by the job. Could he have turned it round with 4 or 5 years? Maybe. But Kalani couldn’t give him that time and he had to go another direction. Ty should have been the QB coach. It’s a sad thing because he is our Heisman and the man but that doesn’t make him a good coach. This can’t be an emotional decision. Let’s retain him if we can.
One year and everyone was ready to fire him. So, after playing without 1st and 2nd stringers and with QB and TE most of the year with 3rd through 4th in skilled positions, 37 key injured players, he’s expected to be Moses and come up with miracles. Sorry, this began the day Ty was announced.
The thing is, the players we now have and will have for 4 years were recruited for the pro style. 4 mostly 2 main big time TE. If we go with the spread with no speed at the WR, we may lose both TE. We haven’t had the talent to run the pro style since Pitta and George. Same with the QBs!!! So, the new OC better run the pro style or we will be lousy for 4 more years! All because of instant gratification instead of patience.
Every coach is on the clock the day they show up. I think he did well as a QB coach, despite Tanner, but he wasn’t ready to be an OC and next year didn’t look any better. I didn’t ask for miracles, just competence. By all accounts he’s brilliant, but you have to be able to get the guys you have to execute that and if they can’t do that then you have to change it and find something they can do. And remember they couldn’t do it in spring ball, fall camp, or at portland state. Nor could they execute it against LSU or any other team on the roster. All he had to do to keep his job was put up a few more points at ECU (worst defense in FBS) and UMASS never won an FBS road game ever in the 6 years it’s been a thing.
Again I feel bad, but he shouldn’t have been hired.
I highly doubt the players we have right now are pro-style players because they weren’t recruited into a pro-style system. And TEs can be featured in a variety of systems and ways and we don’t have to use them in the pro style. As to the WR positions, Speed isn’t necessarily the only virtue. It depends on what type of spread you run. (Though we do have speedy receivers in a few spots: Tanner for instance) Sure you could run something like TCU with 4 verticals prevalent or WSU with an infinite short game, but I think we can run an intermediate style To allow the ball to come out quickly from shotgun and hit big targets including TE both on the ends, flexed, and wide. The line especially could be good at pass blocking if that was the main thing they were asked to do AND we spread out the formation to make their job easier. We have big bodies, just because they can’t dominate the line of scrimmage in the run game consistently, that doesn’t mean they can’t be excellent obstacles in the passing game especially if the offense was built on a quick trigger and we did some deceptive things regularly and unpredictably like moving the pocket, QB Rollouts to the reverse, and so on.
Who knows what direction they go? But there are good alternatives.
You start your argument from the position that the outcome could have been different. Yet, you offer nothing of substance to make this conclusion.
I start my argument from the same position your do. But I offer the reasons the outcome wasn’t different.
- Injuries before the Portland game took out 2 of the TE including the one everyone said was the #1 guy. Tolatau was injured and Canada too.
- Injuries piled up before LSU and continued. QBs got hurt and Tanner was not as good as he was his freshman year.
- Our receivers were not going to be featured and couldn’t be since they weren’t that fast, ran great routs and so the remaining TE was double teamed.
There were other reasons but there was really nothing for Detmer to do differently.
Hopper, even for you the question of how has it worked out for the U of U to change their OC every year or two is nothing short of amazing! What is their record against BYU and our vaunted offensive attack over the last 7 years? ??? Maybe that isn’t an argument that you should use to try and prove your point.
Look where they are now. They barely made a bowl eligible status. It’s going the wrong way for them too. That can’t be denied. Comparing us to them isn’t the question.
Wow, who would you rather be, BYU with wins over 1 FCS and 3 horrible FBS schools or Utah going to a bowl game and straight wins over BYU many years in a row? Only you would rather not be in a bowl game and have a winning record and be happy at 4 wins vs 9 losses and be cheer leading an OC who maybe the worst in the country!
You are the one that compared BYU to Utah, no one else did. So, since you did, I went a step further to enlighten the reading public on the fault in your argument.
I just can’t believe you wrote that! “It is going the wrong way for them (Utah) too”. Direct quote from Hopper! The wrong way for Utah, with many changes in the OC over the last 7 years, results in them having a winning record this year (and for many years) and going to a bowl game, not to mention their record against BYU over the 7 years. And you are saying BYU was going the right way with Detmer as the OC but now BYU is going the wrong way once they have relieved Detmer of his OC responsibilities?? You are now disqualified from commenting on football until next season on this board because of a lack of credibility.
Disagree with your conclusion. Utah is going in the wrong direction because they have new OC almost every year. That will be us. We will stay where we are if we don’t get continuity.
All right, So injuries and mediocre QB/WR play? And you want specific actions to be taken that would have changed the outcome? So I need to make a specific case for why Detmer was negligent or out of his depth? I think I understand your argument.
Top of my list, and I already know you disagree with this, Admit you were wrong and the system is fatally flawed because of recruiting logistics and other factors present in the collegiate game that are different from the pros that make it uniquely difficult for a team like BYU, as opposed to Alabama, USC, Florida St, to run such a system and also that you need to look at your players, particularly Tanner/Hoge/lineman and ask what they can do and fit that to them. Maybe I’m wrong and BYU CAN run the pro in power and dominate top teams. If that’s the case, wait to deploy that scheme till you have those players. Until then, run something Tanner can run behind our line.
Look at Tanner’s stats. Dead give away. If that was your best guy for the job, you need to give him a different job.
At this point, it depends on if we assume that correction was made or not. Say it wasn’t. And the only actual game results that must change for you to keep your job are probably ECU and UMASS. Everything else can stay the same, only in-game decisions have to improve but not necessarily final results.
Now you almost lost to portland state (0-11 by the way and the 20 points we scored on them was the fewest of the entire season, WEBER put up 63 on them) Maybe you didn’t realize this before in fall camp how bad you were.
Immediately burn down what you’re doing. You’re going to lose to LSU anyway, so you might as well install something else they haven’t seen on tape. Throwing them off might even work. Doubtful, but it’s better than not even crossing the 50. You don’t have to get rid of everything, but you do have to change it. Tanner can do that, he’s good at that even, just don’t make him work multiple reads.
Speaking of LSU, the biggest problem, and you hit this, was poor route running. You can’t just say the WR ran poor routes as an excuse. That’s not genetic, it’s coaching. He had a year to fix that and it didn’t happen. It’s just technique. You don’t have to be a freak to be crisp. If it’s a discipline issue, you bench them. If it’s a Kalani team discipline issue then you get in Kalani’s face if he’s undermining you. I’m a boss and I expect my guys to tell me straight up when I screw them over because I work for them, I succeed because they succeed. That’s hard to do, but we know Ty can do that.
I don’t have time to break down each individual game right now with full analysis, but I actually do that every year for each game because I enjoy it for my own sake. But if you like I can create another thread later as I go through them. I would enjoy the commentary from other people on specific points in those games.
But to at least do a few points here’s this:
LSU - The key for us in this game was to hit underneath crossing routes and midrange targets. We actually did decently there. Especially if you break your playbook open and find formations that will pull a LB into coverage in isolation. LSU LB as I recall from the few games I’ve watched them, are terrible in coverage. Plus they gave several of our receivers a huge cushion (12 plus yards I think simon/trinamen specifically but I can’t recall) and that’s an easy pre snap read for Tanner. Also, Deep go routes are a no no for us in that game. Those ARE good Corners and they’ll defend those well. Thats how they got their interception. I need to rewatch the tape for specific details beyond this. Be interesting to compare our game to when Troy beat them. Yeah, remember that? ugh.
ECU - Our first TD in this game came from a fumble on the ECU 14 which the offense then turned into 7 after plays. After that, offense somehow managed to put up over 400 yards and somehow only score 10 points. This was one of the worst passing defenses in the country. At the time they were the worst defense vs the worst offense. Tanner only threw one pick late in the fourth I believe. This was a great game for him except they couldn’t punch it in or they screwed it up with penalties, (I think). By the way here are the scoring totals other teams put up on them, Surprise, we were the worst: 70, 64, 63, 61, 56, 52, 38, 34, 34, 31, 20, and 17 (Us). The key to this game on offense should have been pretty clear, fewer dink and dunk plays, spread the receivers farther than normal and increase the play action passes and also send more deep routes while throwing at intermediate receivers underneath the top of the coverage. If I recall, Hifo was open frequently. We threw short quick plays too much and didn’t punish their bad deep coverage and back 7 including LB. This was all entirely predictable before the game began. Just look at their stats and how they try to defend the passing game. All kinds of space underneath and their safeties tend to be susceptible to biting on play action.
UMASS - Pick up the tempo and use jumbo sets and rotate your lineman more frequently and RUN OVER THEM. Sure they sold out on the run, but that’s not going to matter when we bring 10 guys in the box and smash you. Horrible run defense, (can’t remember if it was the worst in FBS?) But they did not have enough depth on their line to stay with you over a full game. Just wear them down, and protect your true freshman QB and only have him take safe deep shots occasionally or release a TE when they get frustrated. We lost this game because of 4 interceptions. 44 pass attempts when we should have jammed it down their throats. Make them Gaurd Simon or Trinamin in iso to the field and rotate your guys. We actually had enough line depth this year to do that, no problem. That’s all you have to do. I’m sure there are other specifics and nuggets in the tape.
Maybe I’m wrong. If so I’ll admit it when I do my yearly breakdowns.
There is no fault in my argument.
You are disqualified now because you do what you always do. You cherry pick only the words that prove your point. If you take all my words then you realize I’m still right because Utah was one game from not having a winning season or at least one that gave them enough wins to be bowl eligible. Several years ago they were winning their PAC 12 division. They are suffering from lack of OC continuity. Say good night Gracie!