BYU football reboot, the receivers

finally an article that covers the guys that really make BYU go. Receivers:
https://utahvalley360.com/2018/06/27/byu-receivers-seeking-to-elevate-their-game-in-new-offense/

BYU is known as the QB factory but in order to make that happen, you have to have someone to throw to…someone that puts the scare into the opponent. It seems forever since we have had a great receiving core.So I will break down why I am excited for this group.
Bush is an NFL prospect, his tenacity makes him one.
Hifo and Simon have the speed to scare defenses.
Shumway, one of the origional LP 5, was a bit slow but he is big, strong and route running can fix all that.
Add Dylan Collie from Hawaii and you have a solid core of vets.

the next group have experience…Akile Davis, Neil Pau’u and Moroni Laulu-Pututau…these guys were injured so they didn’t get to strut their stuff but when healthy, they all can make big plays.

now for my true excitment, the new guys, “Freshmen receivers Brayden Cosper and Gunner Romney could also make an immediate splash in their debut seasons. Both receivers are players that Fesi Sitake said “can win games” for BYU.” Gunner could have gone anywhere in the country but he chose BYU.

I would have to say that from a group that scores a D for production in 2017, I’m lookin at a B+ right now.

Fish,
This group of talented receivers are what make me so optimistic about BYU football this year! Yes, we have good quarterbacks, some a bit iffy and a lot of could be’s, but being able to catch the ball and run for yardage and the goal line is why I believe we will have a winning season this year. Let’s make it happen. Go Cougs!

gleaning from interviews, I hear a lot of talk about Tanner M. starting at QB.

He has the experience and the arm. My concerns are consistency and how he handles pressure. I have a lot of questions about our cluster of quarterbacks. Unfortunately, it may be a game or two into the season before some of those questions are answered. Thoughts?

We shall see. QB TM could get yank pretty quickly if he doesn’t play well early going (1st qtr) in opening game at AZ.

Another some 63 days to go for opening game which is pretty much I want to think that way. I like what I am hearing about the progress from daily DN stuff on BYU but that is all talk. I am optimistic for this season that we will be better than last year like better than or above .500 season.

Those receivers need to foucs catching the ball FIRST before thinking to run. Last several years they couldn’t catch those balls. Last 2 years were a disaster at the O-Line department and TE guys not blocking to protect the QB.

I am still having fun fishing and football will come quickly which it has been for last few weeks.

Go COUGARS!!!

If Tanner Mangum can get back to 2015 form I would love to see him starting. There are a lot of QBs on the team but he is the only one who has shown he can play at a high level in division 1. Part of Mangum’s problems last year were not of his own making. The team had a weak o-line, weak receivers, and a revolving door at RB due to injuries. With that lack of support it makes for a weak looking QB. He didn’t look great even when he had time to throw but in 2015 he was good with a decent supporting cast. We know what he is capable of. All the rest of the QBs are question marks at this point as to whether they can succeed in D-1. We know Mangum can. The question is whether he will again.

It looks like the receiving corps will be greatly improved and the running back position looks deeper. It is hard to tell whether the O-line has more depth and talent. At least the QB should have some betters options with the skill players available this year and that should help whoever gets the starting nod.

If Mangum has his confidence back, is healthy, and plays well in the fall I think he should start. There may be a future great among the others but none are proven, and that includes Critchlow. Critchlow played well against a few bad teams and very poorly against some bad teams. From what I have seen of the two I would take Mangum. Maybe Wilson is a superstar waiting to happen but he hasn’t taken a D-1 snap yet. Hoge has some mobility but hasn’t proven anything yet. He doesn’t look all that good throwing the ball in my opinion. I am guessing Mangum, Wilson, Critchlow, and Hoge are the guys who have a shot at starting.

I’m beginning to question this more as time goes by. Take away his two Hail Mary’s, and 2015 actually wasn’t a good year. Not really. He was d-r-e-a-d-f-u-l against UCLA and Missouri (a very bad Missouri team that was in disarray from the Black Lives Matter protests). Completely terrible. And just so-so against so-so teams. I think our memory of his first year is colored by his Hail Mary passes. From what we saw last year, I have no confidence in him to have better than 90-120 yard passing games. Remember Portland St.? I don’t care that it was the opener — Portland St. got pounded by some of their division teams they played — they weren’t upper echelon by any means, and we couldn’t pass or run on them.

I really, really hope that Mangum isn’t a) who they go with, and/or b) who emerges as clearly the best going into the season. If that’s the case, would the last person out remember to turn off the lights?

Thank you for refreshing my memory. Yeah, those two Hail Mary were all I remember but forgotten about that Missouri game which we should have won.
Again, if Tanner can’t get it going in 1st qtr or sooner of Arizona game then Grimes will yank him. Then Hoge should be inserted but I don’t know which other two should be next - Critchlow/Wilson.

Now Dylan Collie is now at BYU and looking forward what he can do for this team this year.

He actually played pretty well against UCLA. He outplayed Josh Rosen. Go back and look at the stats it is easy in this era to get game by game stats of everybody. I think you are getting UCLA confused with Michigan. Against Michigan none of the receivers could get an inch of separation so that game wasn’t entirely his fault. To dismiss his entire freshman season and say all he did was throw two Hail Marys is a gross generalization. He had two really bad games and a bunch of good games.

It amazes me how we forget that he broke all the BYU freshman passing records and how most people were upset that Detmer picked HIll over him as his starter and he was supposed to be the next great BYU QB based on his performance of 2015.

He was really bad last year just like the whole offense. My point is that if he can be as good as he was in 2015 he should start unless there is some guy in the mix who will be a star that we don’t know about. As bad as Mangum was against some good teams and a few bad teams Critchlow was awful against a really bad U Mass team and I don’t see him as the answer.

Mangum did well under Anae and not well at all under Detmer. I am hoping a change in coaching will restore his confidence.

You’re right. Statistically, he did “okay,” although 244 yards wasn’t anything to write home about. This jogged my memory that he missed on 4th down or it could have been a trifecta of last gasp heroics that season.

I didn’t mention Michigan because, as you said, it was a complete team dumpster fire. Worst game I have ever seen, other than the first quarter of the Utah Las Vegas Bowl. Oh, and LSU! :slight_smile:

Take away the two Hail Mary’s, and he did not have “two really bad games and a bunch of good games.” He had a bunch of “so-so” games, with two more losses that we remember fondly because of the last second magic. Breaking the freshman BYU passing record is a low bar, because until this era, freshmen have never played at BYU (remember, Detmer only played in relief of Covey when his bell was rung late in the season, and in relief in the bowl game against Penn St.).

You make a good point about Mangum-Anae and Mangum-Detmer, but the psychological reality is that Tanner Mangum today is not the same upstairs as he was his freshman season (and I don’t think his freshman season was really that good). I don’t think Grimes and Co. will matter ---- we’re going to get the LSU/Portland St. Tanner Mangum, no matter who is coordinating the offense. All he did last year was “Jake Heaps” dump it in the flats 2 yard pass stuff — like he was terrified of turning it over or getting sacked. These 90-120 yard passing games are killing us — especially when our running game was running it up the gut with Tre Dye and Squally Canada.

I get your concerns but you are assuming that he is permanently damaged psychologically. All it would take is a few good games and he would get his confidence back. The entire offense was very bad last year and he was only part of the problem. He has all of the physical tools and people can reboot psychologically. Sports is full of stories about guys who bounce back from bad seasons.

It is true that BYU doesn’t have much of a history starting freshman quarterbacks. Detmer started a few games when Covey was injured but was a backup., John Beck started as much as any of the other QBs when he was a freshman so I would consider him a starter, Jake Heaps started all but two games his freshman year… The fact still remains that Mangum’s performance was statistically clearly superior to any prior BYU freshman QB. The fact remains that people were very excited about his future after his freshman year and I don’t think it was entirely based on two passes.

If he can’t get his confidence back then somebody else needs to start but he is the only QB in the group who has shown he can win consistently in D1 football. Do you honestly believe he would have played as poorly as Criitchlow did against U. Mass? At least Mangum, in 2015, demonstrated he could win nearly every time against the teams BYU is supposed to win against. Nobody else has done that yet.

Last year Mangum played on a bad team with no protection, no running game, no receivers, and he was the starter in most of the games before the schedule got really weak. As bad as he was he still had the best passing efficiency stats of all the QBs and he played most of the games against the better teams on the schedule.

Last year? Yeah, I do. Maybe even worse. Yes, they were all that bad last year, but Mangum had a look about him.

All very true. I don’t entirely blame any of the quarterbacks, because as you noted, the protection/blocking, running game, and receivers were all horrible.

I just have yet to see someone come back from going full Jake Heaps. Every time someone has, they forever try to dump it for a two yard gain instead of throwing downfield. Mangum can, but he was at his best scrambling to his right in an emergency situation before heaving it downfield (pre-deer in the headlights). If that is your go-to downfield passing play, you are in trouble.

There is “bouncing back from bad seasons” (aka getting out of a slump), and there is completely rebounding from being psychologically shot. I don’t think that there are very many examples at all of the latter (and the latter results in a sick feeling and a certain look in the eyes where people can tell).

I think of Mackey Sasser with the Dodgers, a good catcher who had to retire because of a mental block keeping him from getting the ball back to the pitcher with runners on (teams learned and runners circled the bases while he futilely tried to throw it but couldn’t). Rookie Dale Murphy (also a catcher) almost crashed and burned because he suddenly and inexplicably threw everything into the outfield. The Braves wisely tried him in the outfield, and the rest was history. He had no trouble throwing to a base or hitting the cutoff man, and he had a terrific arm. He was most proud of his Gold Glove awards because of overcoming this adversity (personal letter to me as a 7 year-old. One of my prized possessions! :slight_smile: )

Sports psychologists can help improve small things, and maybe even with slumps, but not major psychological basket case issues. Unfortunately, what I saw of Tanner Mangum last year leaves me no hope. I would genuinely love to be wrong about that — he’s a great guy, and the redemption would be wonderful.

How short of a leash should he have to find his way? Yanking him immediately doesn’t help the psychological rebuild, but if you have games and games of LSU and Portland St., sheesh.

fish,

I read almost all of your postings on this site and in other places. I have much respect for you and for your educate opinions.

Regarding Tanner Mangum,
" gleaning from Interviews, I hear a lot of talk about Tanner M. starting at QB.’

WE WERE ALL DISAPPOINTED AND STUNED, SHOCKED, UNHAPPY, with the results of the 2017 QB, but also with the lack of ability among the WR’s and the RB’s. Yes, the Tight End was good. What happened to the OF line? Was the new Pro Style Offenses too much for us to adjust two last season? FOR WHAT EVER REASON(S),
the QB and the rest of the OF was a disaster. We got so far down, that we could not get ourselves up again as we lost to teams ranked 100 or worse and we lost to UMASS at home.

Ya, I know how bad it was as does the rest of the college football world. Having said that, I think that Tanner Mangum should temporarily start and I think that the job should be his to lose. He doesn’t have to win vs. ARIZONA, but he has to give them a heck of a fight and put the scare into them.

He doesn’t have to beat Cal at Provo, but it would certainly help to cement his job. He must look very good, even if it is looking good in the loss.

He does not have to win either Washington or Wisconsin to keep his job. He has to look like a tough competitive player that puts some fear into these two teams.

The same can be said vs Boise State and Utah.

Here is where the patience ends. He must not look sloppy, lucky, or inept for the QB job when playing McNeese State. If he does not look like a P5 QB from start to finish in this game, he should be replaced and not allowed to return to this game. He should lose his starting job to someone better prepared and with a more determined mindset.

When playing Utah State, Northern Illinois, this must be an upset win for BYU or he should be taken out of the game if we do not have a comfortable lead by the end of the first quarter.

The first sign of weakness from any of the games vs. Utah State, UMASS, New Mexico State, and Hawaii, he should be taken out and lose his job.

In summary, if we expect to be recognized as a P5 Independent team, we must look like an Independent P5 team vs A L L G5 teams and we should not even be playing FCS teams.

As far as the P5 teams, or any ranked team (1-25), I still have all the patience in the world vs these teams while we are learning to schedule and play against something much closer to a P5 schedule than we have ever had in the past. I am more concerned about the lack of effort in the 2017 season with our receivers than I am with our QB’s.

It was too easy for the receivers last season to think the ball was out of reach instead of diving for the ball, or changing direction to get the ball, or running faster to get the ball. Not nearly enough effort and a gross amount of inability was demonstrated even among those that had the ability.

BYU Campus

Looking at the first game or two of the season, as you suggest, may not be a fair measurement. We are looking at #94 BYU (CFN) playing #31 Arizona and than onto #52 Cal before going to #4 Wisconsin. Wow, that would be tough for most P5 conference teams.

Looking at (Below #130), FCS, McNeese St., is also not a fair comparison as shame on any G5 team or P5 team that could not beat them.

The next game vs # 9 Washington is also not a fair comparison for # 94 BYU to look good.

We will not have a fair comparison until our #94 BYU plays #102 Utah State, where we must look like a powerhouse P5 Independent team or something is seriously wrong with our planning.

Next we must look like a Power House P5 Independent team when playing #120 Hawaii. Shame on us if we don’t.
Looking like a good G5 team vs Hawaii is nowhere close to being good enough.

Next probably the most telling of all games we play, is when our #94 BYU plays vs # 84 Northern Illinois. This is a MUST upset win for not only Tanner Mangum, but for the BYU Cougar Team.

UMASS and New Mexico State are must wins if Tanner is to keep his starting job. These games must make BYU
look like a P5 Independent Powerhouse team when playing # 105 UMASS and # 122 new Mexico State.

Yes, back down to earth when we play # 37 Boise State and # 34 Utah. We will remain patient with these two teams even if we lose, if indeed we lose respectfully keeping the game very close and looking like a very talented team in our loss, if indeed we do lose, which I pray for upset wins in each of these games.

Dew,

" Those receivers need to foucus catching the ball FIRST before thinking to run. "

I would like to add to that.

When watching a good P5 team, like Auburn, Alabama, Ohio State, etc, the wide receivers don’t seem to know
the meaning of an uncatchable ball. Instead, if the ball is too low, they dive for it and make the catch. It it is too wide, the receive changes direction and runs for the catch. if the ball is too high they run faster and dive for the catch, There are no uncatchable passes and therefore their QB’s look great.

The last few years at BYU, we found more uncatchable passes than catchable ones. It was not all the fault of the QB. Most was the lack of effort (taught/learned )from the receivers.

We will not have a fair comparison until our #94 BYU plays #102 Utah State, where we must look like a powerhouse P5 Independent team or something is seriously wrong with our planning.

Ron,
While I agree that the offense as a whole will not have a level comparison during its first five games, I was referring to an early look at Tanner Mangum and how he will handle the pressure of playing against tough opponents. We can learn a great deal from those first few games based on how our players respond to highly favored opponents even when we lose. We might even learn more from a loss than from a win. Of course, I would rather get the win, but it would serve the team well to learn from every game.

I think pre season rankings are just what they are…hope and hype. For instance, Zona is always over hyped. They lose some early games and then they buckle down. Cal has one good year in 10. Umass is over rated this year. USU, also over rated. Road games are always tough.

We are underdogs in 8 of the 12 games. They have us losing to USU and UMass…I would go to vegas and bet that we don’t lose to either and that we get to 500.

Fish,

I fully agree with you when you say, "Cal has one good year in 10. " etc. I believe that a seasons predictable outcome for the season, is not only based on last seasons performance, but also on the average performance of the past 10 years. I also believe that coaching changes and recruiting are important predictors and most importantly the SOS compared to others in the prognostications.

Finally someone who remembers the 2015 season. Mathews was an incredible receiver. Thanks, been saying the same thing since they wanted to replace Hill with Mangum