BYU and the LGBT community

Excellent comments and accurate summary of what is going on. Reed, you always express your opinions in a very clear way and, in my opinion, very accurate as to the basic doctrinal teachings and beliefs that we are taught and subscribe to as members of the church and followers of the Savior.

As for Chris and the situation with his son. I believe Chris is doing all the right things. I hope his son comes to understand his divine potential and looks at things with an eternal perspective. Sometimes we all think of only the here and now instead of keeping our eyes focused on the goal in the distance. I am not making a judgement because I donā€™t know enough to do so.

It is never too late to change our course and follow the path that our Savior has led.

There is one thing about is is that you always attempt to think logically. In some things you allow feelings or intuition to derail your logic :slight_smile: sometimes impatience and anger :thinking:
Just a thought and an observation. If someone believes people are born gay, isnā€™t it logical to conclude they could only see that gay marriage and celestial glory can happen with gays because God made them that way? That they arenā€™t sinning because they were born that way?

Thank you for that, Jim. When people get kicked in the teeth, the last thing they want is to have someone come along and do some more kicking. We donā€™t need more on our plate, we have enough without a$$holes like Scott.

I find it fascinating that people think they are the only ones who have troubles with family members. I have 2 and a half wayward children. They each have strayed for different reasons. And, it really doesnā€™t matter what the reason is, the road back is just as difficult no matter the reason or sin. What matters is how we as parents, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles and grandparents react.
Denying that a sin exists by rationalization or denouncing the Church is not the way for grown ups to handle their situations. If we do then there is no beacon for them to see and come back to the point of seeking out Christ, the only one that had to sink lower than the sinners. Meaning we donā€™t have to sink and sin too, do we?
My oldest is far away from the Church at this point. But, I never let him think Iā€™m going to sink to his level either. Instead, I stay steadfast but always there for him. He just had double hernia surgery and I spent a few days and nights helping him. Thatā€™s all I can do at this point but itā€™s enough. When and if heā€™s ready Iā€™ll be ready because I wonā€™t let him or anyone else try to confuse me about what is sin and what isnā€™t. At the same time, Iā€™m not going to stoop down and start calling people dirty names because I disagree. How about you?

How in the world does this comment apply to anything I said? Opinions and beliefs are formulated based on all those things you just mentioned. EVERYONE does that. or at least I hope they do. Logic combined with feelings and intuition are some of the most important factors in determining what we believe and how we try to live our lives. Trying it any other way doesnā€™t make sense!

I was thinking specifically when you try to explain BYU and the NBA :slight_smile:

Iā€™ll give you a NBA explanation.

It has never been more rigged and staged in the history of the league. There is no parity. They showcase their superstars. They allow teams to get stacked with those superstars and the officials do everything humanly possible to have the series extended as far as possible.

The same 2 teams 3 years in a row. Lebron James in the finals 7 years in a row. The Cavs coming back from a 3-1 deficit in the finals last season to be the first team in history to do that. The Warriors being the first team to sweep every series into the finals and almost sweep the finals except for the NBA doing everything possible to extend the series. They donā€™t replay all of the calls because that would make it all too obvious but they do show enough of them to demonstrate that the games are rigged as much as possible.

He is right on the money and what he is saying is absolutely true. I see it with my own eyes, what he says only confirms it. His ā€œbettingā€ on games was nothing more than a conspired effort to get him out because he was too noisy and the league didnā€™t like the bad press, trying to keep from being exposed.

Itā€™s entertainment and big money. Nothing moreā€¦

If any of that was true then they would have let Chris Paul join the Lakers a few seasons ago. Right now, those two teams have the right mix like the Lakers - Celtics did back in the 80ā€™s and 90ā€™s.

Nopeā€¦

The teams are stacked with superstars and the NBA allowed it. The reason they didnā€™t allow the Lakers to do it is because all heck would have busted loose. Because it is two ā€œdifferent teamsā€ than those in the past it is somehow okay

Teams donā€™t build dynastyā€™s, they buy them just like everything else that is wrong with society today. Itā€™s all about the moneyā€¦ the greed and the money.

Gonzaga rule the WCC Menā€™s BBall! Yep! And it has gotten pretty boring all around in two college sports, FBall & BBall.

I have been away for awhile and just got back to see what was going on with this board. The discussions on blacks and the priesthood and the gay issue really heated up. Iā€™ll give you my current take on things. I used to see issues as being black and white (no pun intended) like Hopper does. I donā€™t want to write a long post so Iā€™ll try to be succinct. If we keep the first and great commandment to love God with all our heart, might, mind , and strength and we follow the second great commandment to love our neighbors as ourselves then I am sure we can please God and live the gospel the way he intended.

I love the church and the good it does throughout the world and the peace it brings to my life. I wouldnā€™t lose my testimony if a leader who had good intentions interjected his own bias in what was being said across the pulpit. General Authorities arenā€™t infallible. As Fish pointed out, it has happened and statements have been retracted in some instances. I can also point out a recent example. I also wouldnā€™t lose my testimony if God made exceptions to his stated commandments when it met his purposes or when the time was right like when Nephi killed Laban. Something can be said for letting God judge as he will and the rest of us just learning to follow the two great commandments.

With respects to blackā€™s and the priesthood, BRM retracted his statements but the commandments concerning the priesthood did not change.
As for Nephi, if Nephi continues to chop off heads of those he disagreed with, then we would have to rename Elohim, Allah. Itā€™s not a real good analogy then. I mean, so if God told your neighborā€™s son itā€™s okay to be gay and act out those sex acts, but only him, does that make sense?
The commandments didnā€™t change under Nephi.

Itā€™s all good Glenn, the rest of us understand what you are saying. The hopper can only jump up and down and try to find something wrong with what you said like ā€œthe commandments didnā€™t change under Nephiā€ā€¦

Just thank him for his input and move onā€¦ :weary:

Thereā€™s always Jim who can understand the non-understandable. Yet doesnā€™t understand the NBA and College ball :slight_smile:

Here you go Chris. You just have to search for itā€¦

https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/worldwide-devotionals/2016/01/becoming-true-millennials?lang=eng

Thanks Russ,

By the way, Our problem is not that we have a gay son, could not imagine our life without him. Our problem is that our church has a problem with our son being gay.

Just wanted everyone to understand where we stand.

Iā€™m sure the Church is pointedly aimed at your son. They must discuss him at every meeting of the First Presidency and The Quorum of the 12. You are certainly NOT the only one with a gay child who was raised in an LDS home. I doubt, very seriously, that the Church targets gay individuals. Why would you stay in an obviously man led and directed church. If the Church is not directed by the Lord then why stay in it. A serious question that I am asking myself for the past year and have not yet come to a conclusionā€¦

I am pissed off at myself because I had promised myself that I would not post on this subject. The last thing I have to say is that all the posts on this subject has me believing that the Church that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young led is crumbling within. Perhaps that is the way it was going to be all along. The USA seems to be crumbling within also.

Daniel 2:44 gives me the knowledge that the kingdom of God on the earth, this Church, shall not be given to another. The Church has and will always be led by the Lordā€™s chosen prophets. We may crumble away but the Church will not. The Lord is in control and always will be.

I donā€™t think the Church has a problem. The Lord is at the helm of the Church. He reveals His will to the prophet.

THANK YOU THAWK .
We are commanded to love all of our brothers and sisters. God will conduct the final judgement and will take all factors into consideration and his judgement will be completely fair.